JHCC Posted January 3, 2020 Share Posted January 3, 2020 No, your math is right. Must have been the flat bar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rustyanchor Posted January 3, 2020 Share Posted January 3, 2020 4 hours ago, jlpservicesinc said: .850 per foot on 1/2" sq hot rolled. I get 17lbs per 20ft length on 1/2" sq. Is my math off? 3 hours ago, JHCC said: No, your math is right. Must have been the flat bar. OK, I solved the weight mystery, I went to the shop and looked at the square stock and it is 1/2 and 10' long, but there were 4 10' sticks rather than 2. I weighed 2 10' pieces and they weigh 17 pounds according to the highly calibrated cheap fish scale. So guess I bought 4 sticks and the weight was 34 pounds. Thank you both for keeping me honest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHCC Posted January 3, 2020 Share Posted January 3, 2020 Remember that steel is 0.284 lbs/cubic inch, and you won’t go wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fowllife Posted January 3, 2020 Share Posted January 3, 2020 I'm surprised that some guys are still buying as low as $.35/lb since that's below wholesale price on most if not all shapes. Following are the "stander" lengths per my reference book from a fairly large multi state steel supplier HR round, square, flat - 20' HR strips (1/8"-3/16" thick) - 16' CR round, square, flat- 12' Angle - 20' Channel (bar, Structural, MC) - 20' (available in 5' increments after 20') Beams (I, WF, H) - 20' (available in 5' increments after 20') Pipe - 21', 24', and 42' (up to 60') Tube - 20' (24', 30', 36', 40'. 48', & 60') Threaded rod - 12' I should say, this is the stock length from this supplier, others may vary. Longer lengths are also available on some items. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlpservicesinc Posted January 3, 2020 Share Posted January 3, 2020 10 hours ago, JHCC said: Remember that steel is 0.284 lbs/cubic inch, and you won’t go wrong. How many Cu inches are in 1" long 3" heavy C channel? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rustyanchor Posted January 3, 2020 Share Posted January 3, 2020 9 hours ago, JHCC said: Remember that steel is 0.284 lbs/cubic inch, and you won’t go wrong. Thank you. I'm sure there is a readily accessible chart for size versus weight by length, but I never thought to look for it. I would also bet there is something in Machinery's Handbook, but I haven't tried to look it up, and don't carry it around. 3 hours ago, Fowllife said: I'm surprised that some guys are still buying as low as $.35/lb since that's below wholesale price on most if not all shapes. I believe a lot of their misc. (the $.35/lb) is mill 'rejects', for jobs not requiring a spec. steel, the stuff is fine. I got some 1/4 or so round stock thinking it was cold rolled, it is hard and a bear to bend cold, but it welds up fine, so it works for what I need. They do have odd drops and some recycled parts, and lots of other odds and ends. Great place to waunder around for a few hours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted January 3, 2020 Share Posted January 3, 2020 I have an old "shirt pocket" spiral bound notebook of steel shapes and weight per foot; but it's back on the book case. I'm sure there is now an app for smartphones with that data. I will say it often pays to call around as I have found some dealers cheaper on some stock but more expensive on other stock than other dealers and it can change from visit to visit---they may price by what they paid and so slow moving stock may differ from spot price. As a real steel dealer is at least a 50+ mile drive from my shop I try to buy 1 extra stick of everything I am getting for a project, it slowly builds an inventory of stuff you use and if you mess up big time you have a piece to start over with without planning the 50+ mile drive...(Living in the country you tend to stack up shopping till you finally go to town, the big city is just over an hour away!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHCC Posted January 3, 2020 Share Posted January 3, 2020 26 minutes ago, jlpservicesinc said: How many Cu inches are in 1" long 3" heavy C channel? C channel is designated by the outside width of the channel and the weight of a one-foot length (for example, the channel that makes up the vertical frame of The Pressciouss is "C 5 x 6.7"). 3" channel comes in three weights: 6 lbs/ft, 5 lbs/ft, and 4.1 lbs/ft, which have cross-sectional areas (in square inches) of 1.76, 1.47, and 1.21 respectively and thus would have 1.76, 1.47, and 1.21 cubic inches in a one-inch length. The specs for dimensions, weights, etc of C channel are available on The Engineering ToolBox. 21 minutes ago, rustyanchor said: I'm sure there is a readily accessible chart for size versus weight by length, but I never thought to look for it. I would also bet there is something in Machinery's Handbook, but I haven't tried to look it up, and don't carry it around. Things really only get tricky for stock that isn't round or square. There is a chart in MH, but if you can calculate the volume of a bar (cross-sectional area in square inches x length in inches) and multiply that by 0.284, it's usually faster than finding the book and looking it up on the table. Even if you don't have a calculator with a PI button for figuring the section of a round bar, 22/7 will get you close enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rustyanchor Posted January 3, 2020 Share Posted January 3, 2020 Thomas, I feel your pain in driving anywhere, I would not give up the country life for the convenience of a city. I just lucked out with a great steel supplier 15 miles away. I do tend to pick up an extra stick or two when I go by...I went for 2 1/2" sq stock, ended up with 4 in the shop. It will get used for something some time. I had a smart phone when we moved here, but no cell service at the house and I didn't get any smarter, so I went back to a flip phone and seem to be OK with it. The GPS would be useful for trips, but I usually manage to get where I'm going. JHCC, Thank you! Maff has never been my best friend. I can wing it and get close enough for what I need, but you really don't want me figuring out stress loads for bridges or designing airplanes. The rules and formulas just never stuck. Graph paper and a scaled ruler are my friends. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted January 3, 2020 Share Posted January 3, 2020 Well the scrapyard is only 6 miles away... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fowllife Posted January 3, 2020 Share Posted January 3, 2020 1 hour ago, jlpservicesinc said: How many Cu inches are in 1" long 3" heavy C channel? 2.08 C.I. Since "heavy C" isn't a shape I used an MC3x7.1 which is the heaviest 3" channel I found, is my guess right? I know you were just making a statement that some shapes are harder to calculate, but I had to guess anyways....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHCC Posted January 3, 2020 Share Posted January 3, 2020 The great thing about the C channel designations is that if you want the volume per linear inch, you just have to divide the lbs/ft by 12 inches to get lbs/inch and then divide that quotient by .284 lbs/cubic inch. 7.1 / 12 = 0.5916666.... 0.59167 / 0.284 = 2.083333..... So, yes. 1 hour ago, rustyanchor said: Maff has never been my best friend. I can wing it and get close enough for what I need, but you really don't want me figuring out stress loads for bridges or designing airplanes. The rules and formulas just never stuck. Graph paper and a scaled ruler are my friends. I hear you! Still, it's amazing how fantastically useful it can be if you remember a few simple formulae (or know where to look them up) and know how to apply them. Smithing has been quite a mathematical education for me, both in terms of design geometry (rhythm, proportion, etc) and the hard math of, for example, calculating the system requirements of a hydraulic press. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlpservicesinc Posted January 3, 2020 Share Posted January 3, 2020 You caught me... I was having some sarcastic fun. I have no idea what it is based on what steel weighs per cubic inch. But as JHCC pointed out there are places to find in on the net.. chuckle, chuckle. I was on the road. Chuckle , chuckle.. Ideally one should have a weights and measures in a note book in the shop or in a wall chart. Its 6lbs per foot for heavy C. So for 1" it would be. 0.5lbs.. 6lb/12"=0.5 But going by the weight per foot which is on any steel sellers site can give you the cubic inch as well with simple math. Once you have the weight per foot you can easily figure out the cubic inch of material per weight for odd shapes or use the displacement method. The heaviest they stock here is 6lb per foot. I usta use math all the time in Scuba diving and for figuring out volumes for metal and such. but now I use math once every 3-6months unless it's simple addition/subtraction. It shows.. LOL.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rustyanchor Posted January 3, 2020 Share Posted January 3, 2020 24 minutes ago, jlpservicesinc said: I usta use math all the time in Scuba diving and for figuring out volumes for metal and such. but now I use math once every 3-6months unless it's simple addition/subtraction. It shows.. LOL.. Figuring out residual nitrogen times and remaining bottom times perhaps? Everybody has a dive computer now, are dive tables still taught? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlpservicesinc Posted January 3, 2020 Share Posted January 3, 2020 Was a diving instructor, certified gas blender, service tech, etc, etc. Was a distributor for halcyon diving equipment. I used to do cave diving, and deep wreck diving 200ft+. 2000ft back in a cave. That kind of stuff. Dive was 20min and deco was 2hrs. We ran our own deco based on Buelmann with modifications. Was involved with GUE and was in the instructor training program, when I took the hit. No dive computers, just tables on a pad carried in pocket. 10/80, 18/45, 36/10, 50/50 and 100% O2 at 20ft. Took a bad type 2 hit on a training dive. Turns out because of all the injuries to connective tissues I was prone to dcs. I've had some injuries over the last 50 years that would kill a horse. Somehow still ticking.. lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHCC Posted January 3, 2020 Share Posted January 3, 2020 Well, I guess it's a good thing you're not a horse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted January 3, 2020 Share Posted January 3, 2020 You beat me to it John. Channel iron is measured across the OD of the web and weight per linear foot. 3"x4.1lb., 3"x5lb., and 3"x 6lb. You can find the specific dimensions web x flange x web thickness, flange thickness and taper, area of cross section, tensile strength, modulus of elasticity, etc. as detailed as you need. Most suppliers list the specs on their web sites. The guys at the counter will just look at you funny if you try to order by anything but width and weight though, the other specs are for the engineers to worry about. I'm looking at the PDF I downloaded from Coyote Steel and Supply and saved. If I were doing fab work I'd just print it out and put it in a ring binder or maybe reduce the size and put it in a small binder. The supplier I used to visit regularly gave me a copy of the machinist's handbook and a copy of the handbook of steel sizes and weights. When I did a lot of fab on the state drill crew I bought thousands of $ worth of steel every couple months and occasional got samples to evaluate in the real world. If you didn't know off road track drills tend to do serious abuse to themselves. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHCC Posted January 3, 2020 Share Posted January 3, 2020 19 minutes ago, Frosty said: You beat me to it John. I even quoted The Engineering ToolBox! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted January 3, 2020 Share Posted January 3, 2020 (edited) You did and I have it bookmarked though it's easier to search out a reference than try to open bookmarks on this stupid computer. It has fancy keys instead of the standard function keys. All the regular qwerty function keys have been replaced by screen brightness, multiple monitor, touch pad on/off, play, pause, next, volume controls, etc. Sorry, every time I even THINK about the screwy keys on this thing I want to go on a long angry rant. Unfortunately I don't have the oh so brilliant guys who KNOW what I really need, living in their Mom's attic to shout at. <sigh> Frosty The Lucky. Edited January 3, 2020 by Mod34 Excessive quoting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlpservicesinc Posted January 3, 2020 Share Posted January 3, 2020 Yes, it is a very good thing.. Or it's not.. For some reason I'm supposed to be here, doing what I'm doing or else I wouldn't be. Guardian angles maybe. I've been in numerous scrapes and high falls. Partially paralyzed on my left side, back surgery, etc, etc.. still keep trucking.. LOL.. And yes, a few of those falls were on my head.. One from 30ft right on a rock.. LOL.. I'm perfectly normal though.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted January 3, 2020 Share Posted January 3, 2020 If you are perfectly normal---why the heck are you hanging out with us? We know Frosty's and Charles' excuse and I can blame my modified charpy test of my skull as well as my endocrine system trying to self immolate...John, well, Grammar is a stern mistress indeed! (Just working out things like "the reason of the unreason with which my reason is afflicted so weakens my reason that with reason I murmur at your beauty;" as he stares at the precious can explain a lot...) However you seem practical and not piratical, talented, tolerant and good tempered----are you sure you are in the right place? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Crew Posted January 3, 2020 Share Posted January 3, 2020 I am currently paying 35 to 45 cents per pound for flats and shapes a little more for tubes. But i have accounts with several suppliers and buy large quantity occasionally . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlpservicesinc Posted January 3, 2020 Share Posted January 3, 2020 Thomas.. I run a sliding scale on normal. I'm never sure I'm in the right place.. Seems to be more of a put there. Kinda thing.. You are there. therefore that is where you are.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted January 4, 2020 Share Posted January 4, 2020 Ah the Trombone of Normal! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Crew Posted January 4, 2020 Share Posted January 4, 2020 I am in agreement with Jennifer Normal is on a sliding scale witch from gets adjusted from time to time by your choice of friends or associates or your chosen activities. I also have broken myself more times than i care to admit. Un-fortunately experience is the best and most unforgiving teacher. I am also a slow student which seems to indicate that either I am either stupid or don't feel pain Normal ? I don't understand what all that entails! Happily abnormal and glad to be back from vacation in the mountains of New Mexico (Think time travel to the days before cell phones, internet and phone-{landline}) How did we exist in the stone age ? (70s or 80s) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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