jlpservicesinc Posted January 26, 2020 Share Posted January 26, 2020 Well, i'm kinda bummed Anvil, I was hoping you could document it and post it so all of us could learn something.. Information is just that.. its hard to really learn anything from just words.. But you put a video in there and it goes well. Saying its a combination between this and that person.. Well frankly is just as confusing as saying that coconut from that tree that is in a grove of 20 other trees all within 3 ft of each other and on the ground among 20 other coconuts is hard to identify as the one that stands out. Anyhow, videos are King or queen.. Well at some point I might be a world traveler and as long as an invite is in place. I might take you up on it. Besides it will give me a chance to see the new shop in person.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shabumi Posted January 26, 2020 Share Posted January 26, 2020 9 hours ago, Marc1 said: sort of shortcutting the arm and the hammer, if that makes sense, as a remote control. I always called this "muscle memory". Unfortunately, my muscles haven't learned enough hammer control to remember anything worthwhile, yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlpservicesinc Posted January 26, 2020 Share Posted January 26, 2020 I always get a kick out of the "Muscle memory" thing.. Muscle has no memory.. Though I suppose the nerves could act as a conduit for the feet to think of a funny joke and transfer it to the mouth.. Without the brain to activate each and every action voluntarily or not. The body would just lay limp.. So, not a big fan of the muscle memory.. what does happen though is the mind not longer has to use as much ram to maintain a certain action.. So I guess we could say action/brain memory. I'm just being funny.. But i don't believe in muscle memory at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pnut Posted January 26, 2020 Share Posted January 26, 2020 You're absolutely correct. Muscle has no memory but the neural networks and pathways that are formed over repeated motions is what actually is happening. Driving home and not remembering the drive is an example although there's more going on than just that. Tying a bow in your shoelaces or for me at least, folding laundry is another example because I work in a laundry and my brain drifts while my body is on autopilot. I think you are correct though. Muscle memory is just another way of saying second nature and the comparison to not using as much RAM is a good analogy. Younger people would maybe relate to an app running in the background. Pnut Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlpservicesinc Posted January 26, 2020 Share Posted January 26, 2020 yes, but it's not muscle.. just as I said. You have to tell the muscles still how to do it.. Drop mic.. YOU might be distracted enough that you don't remember telling the muscles how to do it,, but you still tell them.. Hence "No muscle memory".. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pnut Posted January 26, 2020 Share Posted January 26, 2020 1 hour ago, pnut said: You're absolutely correct. Muscle has no memory We are in agreement Pnut Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anvil Posted January 26, 2020 Share Posted January 26, 2020 18 hours ago, jlpservicesinc said: Besides it will give me a chance to see the new shop in person.. Beats a vid hands down. At this time a vid is a low priority. When it rains it pours. I'm 3 shops "poor" at the moment. A very basic carport shop, my 18'x20' temp shop lacks a week to finish,,, once spring arrives, and logs to peel plus "shop drawings" to finish for my "real deal" shop by spring. Lol, it's kicking my B_ _ _ big time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shabumi Posted January 26, 2020 Share Posted January 26, 2020 Interesting, when you see muscle memory it means "a memory from the muscles", I see "a memory for the muscles". Though I tend to see an abstract meaning in sayings. I can't help it, it's how I think. For example, whenever a member of my family finds money on the ground and picks it up they say "money on the ground means money to be found" which to them means that money on the ground is fair game to pick up. To me it always meant that by having money on the ground means more money is soon to be found, so I always keep a handful of change scattered about the yard. Maybe it works, maybe not. Worst case scenario, I can always pick it back up and spend it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlpservicesinc Posted January 26, 2020 Share Posted January 26, 2020 Anvil, I'm hopeful.. it is a shame though that many others will never get to see the joy that could be your hammer sensation.. There is a large calling for those... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc1 Posted January 26, 2020 Share Posted January 26, 2020 On the so called muscle memory, that is just an expression, of course no one thinks that muscles have memory. However picture this scenario. You are holding a bow and want to hit a target with your arrow. From previous experience you know how to hold the bow, what tension on the string, the wind on your face and on the bushes and the other many variables that will allow you to hit that target. Or do you? When it comes to hammer techniques, it is apparently simple to isolate the few different things that are necessary to achieve a good result and avoid injury. Or so we think. In the case of the bow and the arrow, the complexity and the number of the variables is so high that there is no way to think about each of them separately to think yourself into a hit. So ... you don't. The Japanese say to let your soul fly with the arrow. Kokoro. The indivisible 'mind-soul-spirit' As for the muscle ... when we train at an early age, we develop a larger number of cells not only bigger muscle cells. when we stop training, the cells diminish in size but do not disappear. They are there waiting for the activity to resume. Does the cell know how big it was previously? No one knows. The capacity of our senses to detect data and elaborate it into information necessary for a task is incredibly more complex than just, hold the hammer in this way and hit the iron in this other way. The more complex the information necessary the more magic the result. I always wonder at the capacity of the eye to determine the size of a drill bit or the thickness of stock. How can I, by simply looking at a bolt, know that it is 12mm metric and not 1/2" imperial? I don't "know" ... I just know. There are many things that we don't know. "I only know, that I know nothing" S ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlpservicesinc Posted January 26, 2020 Share Posted January 26, 2020 Marc the Shinto expression of one mind.. and the arrow will find its home.. Is a very misunderstood precept.. Every arrow wants to go home.. Just as every sword cut, every shuriken throw and such and such.. The aspect of "MIND".. I don't disagree with you as to bolts, sockets and such.. But it's not muscle memory that does that.. its deductive reasoning. I am not arguing the point of muscle memory.. I wish it was that simple.. some would argue it is that simple.. Muscle memory really again, is something that was made up to confuse people and is handy to say.. I have seen it brought to the limit in martial arts in combat type applications or in emergency type responses. So, (again as the computer example.. Free ram.. it's just more free ram because the resources are being used more efficiently.. Problem is there are sub routines that are also running).. Each skill set mastered free's up ram and moves it to the sub routine.. This means that as a person you have more unused ram available for the next IO cycle.. You still have to load it to ram before it is executed and then ran as a sub routine. If your mind really was able to overcome having more than 1 thought at a time consciously it would be a game changer.. A person can only have 1 thought at a time.. No matter what it does not change. The fact that you can give the body a command.. and it will continue doing it while you in fact do something else... It will do this till you tell it to stop.. ( A drummer is a great example).. Try to read something and have a separate thought about something else while you read.. Even so it is still one command at a time.. The rapidity with which you give the commands is what increases.. Or you ram cycle rate.. 133mhz vs 2600mhz. If muscle memory was really the be all end all.. Then someone in their 80's would be better at any given activity than a 25 year old because they would have better muscle memory for a given task despite the break down of physicality. or age.. Same with baseball, or soccer or any sport.. This simply means the longer one does something the better they become.. this is part of the fallacy of it all. Sure as we get older we get smarter or have the ability to apply what we have learned better.. But, even though with all my forging prowess when I was younger. I used to be extremely fast and efficient.. Now I'm about 1/3rd the speed I was in my 30's with forging.. I take off a month at a time and it is tough physically getting back at there to even work at the less than stellar performance.. it takes me 2 to 3 days of forging to get back to what my middle ground is now.. And with a month off, I get blisters in exactly the same spots each time.. the first day. I have to take it slow and easy or else i'll be in trouble.. I had thought after the 13 years off, originally sure I can be in forging shape in about 6 months to a year.. Here I am 3 years out and I'm just now starting to get better in a way.. Muscle memory IE. Free ram, coupled with physical shape, coupled with ability.. Anyone of these off kilter and it's all off kilter.. I am an extremely physical person.. And I can see the difference even though I have had 100,000, 000 of hammer cycles, it applies everywhere.. I can only share my experiences as I have seen applied across all facets of my life as I have aged and studied.. Taught all sorts of sports and martial arts, etc, etc.. The largest facet that I do see is the facet of understanding the material, technique and proper use of the equipment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc1 Posted January 28, 2020 Share Posted January 28, 2020 On 1/27/2020 at 8:13 AM, jlpservicesinc said: The aspect of "MIND".. Considering that I had a Japanese step mother and have two japanese sisters ... i do understand a little bit too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlpservicesinc Posted January 28, 2020 Share Posted January 28, 2020 Sorry, I was just adding to your wonderful information.. did something I write come out wrong? If so I'm sorry.. Dang dyslexia, and lack of socialization as a puppy, and never understanding anything.. Argh.. LOL.. Wacky is, is wacky does.. Who said that.. Argh.. Stop talking, which one, you, yes you.. LOL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles R. Stevens Posted January 28, 2020 Share Posted January 28, 2020 Amazing how many physical skills are perishable, such as defensive firearms and blacksmithing. careful Jennifer, your going to get a curmudgeon club T-shirt ;-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted January 28, 2020 Share Posted January 28, 2020 4 out of 5 voices in my head vote AYE! We're ignoring the other one right now... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlpservicesinc Posted January 28, 2020 Share Posted January 28, 2020 Charles you said a mouthful, there.. Thomas you said a mouths full there.. LOL.. I've been waiting to graduate to the Curmudgeon club.. I feel like a miss America peagent winner.. LOL.. I'm doing the wave and everything.. Even the tear in the corner of the eye.. Oops.. My dreams are dashed.. I just reread it.. Bummer.. Your going to get.. Ah, I figured i was in.. I'm so bummed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anachronist58 Posted January 28, 2020 Share Posted January 28, 2020 Jennifer, you are IN. What size do you wear? Robert Taylor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlpservicesinc Posted January 28, 2020 Share Posted January 28, 2020 A mens medium or womens large. yeah.... happy dance.. Happy chair dance.. I got me some pretty serious leg moves.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLAG Posted January 28, 2020 Share Posted January 28, 2020 JLP, You are already an honorable member, in the club. SLAG. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles R. Stevens Posted January 28, 2020 Share Posted January 28, 2020 You would look into the apprenticeship program! That reminds me I need to put in my journeyman’s papers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irondragon Forge ClayWorks Posted January 28, 2020 Share Posted January 28, 2020 3 hours ago, ThomasPowers said: 4 out of 5 voices in my head vote AYE! Even if the voices in my head aren't real, they have some really good ideas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlpservicesinc Posted January 28, 2020 Share Posted January 28, 2020 LOL.. they sure do.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc1 Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 On 1/29/2020 at 4:47 AM, jlpservicesinc said: Sorry, I was just adding to your wonderful information.. did something I write come out wrong? If so I'm sorry.. Dang dyslexia, and lack of socialization as a puppy, and never understanding anything.. Argh.. LOL.. Wacky is, is wacky does.. Who said that.. Argh.. Stop talking, which one, you, yes you.. LOL. Are you mocking me now Jennifer? That is disappointing, and so is the chorus of pseudo adults that followed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 Keep it respectful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlpservicesinc Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 1 hour ago, Marc1 said: Are you mocking me now Jennifer? That is disappointing, and so is the chorus of pseudo adults that followed. I"m sorry again,, No I was not mocking you.. I was making fun at/of myself.. Never occurred to me to mock anybody.. I don't roll that way.. I give straight answers.. I don't sit around thinking about how to harass anyone.. I'm not that kind of person.. I'm afraid you have me confused with someone else.. Not sure what happened.. But if you feel like i wronged you "I'm sorry".. Please accept my apology.. I thought the follow post was a good one.. Had good info.. But what do I know.. Personally, I just share what I have come to know through action.. But in reality.. I really don't think any of it is really that important.. Forging, or technique or what have you.. When I die, will I look back and think.. Oh, I wish I would have been better at forging that leaf.. I doubt it.. it is just not important.. but, If I can share something I learned through all the years of all the varied aspects of my existance up to the this point.. Well, I'm here.. LOL.. Yup, i'm here.. Even though sometimes I wonder why I really even bother to.. Does it really matter.... LOL.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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