WayneF Posted November 30, 2019 Share Posted November 30, 2019 Hi all i am looking for information / advice on my burner. the flare is 1/2” to1” and still has the threads in it, is it best to remove the threads. is it best for safety to use a armoured hose from the propane tank to my burner. i remember reading in one thread that should no use thread sealant, is that only on the black pipe or at all? thanks for your help Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted November 30, 2019 Share Posted November 30, 2019 No, I experimented around some years back and discovered burners perform a little better with internal threads in tack than removed and smoothed on the lathe. Whether or not to use armored propane hose depends a lot of burner orientation. If they're top mounted then heat from the forge will rise up through them and can seriously over heat rubber. You need to use propane rated thread sealant and it's been found paste type causes far fewer problems. Tape can end up on the inside where bits can eventually come loose and cause problems down the line. Disrupt or even block the gas jet, flow rate through needle or shut off valve, etc. It's not a problem with the paste. Teflon tape and paste not rated for propane use can degrade and cause a fire hazard, not only from potential leaks but it can evidently turn into a type of thermite, which is B A D. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WayneF Posted November 30, 2019 Author Share Posted November 30, 2019 I meant to add some pictures of my burner setup, any recommendations are welcome. I am using a quick release for the hose to burner connection. I think I might need to redo my joints once I check on the tape I used. Thanks for the advice frosty I plan on mounting the burner on the side of a pile of insulating bricks forge Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted December 1, 2019 Share Posted December 1, 2019 Were the cast parts originally from a burner? Because everything I think I know about gas burners brings me to the conclusion that this is going to be a weak one... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonkeyForge Posted December 1, 2019 Share Posted December 1, 2019 That looks like a 1/2 inch Amal injector. There have been a couple of threads on them here on iforgeiron. Apparently with the right orifice size they can be tuned to be pretty hot and when used in a forge do not necessarily need a flare. (if I remember correctly) These are just 2 In no specific order I hope they are useful to you: https://www.iforgeiron.com/topic/59893-helium-tank-forge-with-amal-burner/ https://www.iforgeiron.com/topic/60905-amal-burner/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WayneF Posted December 1, 2019 Author Share Posted December 1, 2019 Hi yes it is a 1/2 inch burner as stock I have linked to it below. What makes you think it will be weak? Do you think a different injector nozzle will be needed. i have to wait until the new year to buy the hoses etc before I can fire it up http://amalcarb.co.uk/amal-gas-injectors/propane-injectors/1-2-injector-propane-gas-long-venturi.html i have followed Tim Gunn instructions in this post I think I need to get a different nozzle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted December 1, 2019 Share Posted December 1, 2019 3 hours ago, WayneF said: What makes you think it will be weak? The mixing tube looks to be too Long, and the flame retention nozzle is far from optimal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irondragon Forge ClayWorks Posted December 1, 2019 Share Posted December 1, 2019 On 11/30/2019 at 11:27 AM, WayneF said: quick release for the hose Is it also rated for propane? Quick connectors for air hoses are dangerous with propane. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WayneF Posted December 1, 2019 Author Share Posted December 1, 2019 Hi mike sorry if if this is a stupid question but what do you mean by flame retention nozzle, is this the brass nozzle in the burner that passes the fuel into the choke or the flare at the end of the black nipple. Would you recommend another size nozzle if this is the part you are referring to. The black pipe is 9” irondragon I will change this out for a fixed connection then as I want to be as safe as possible, thanks for the warning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted December 1, 2019 Share Posted December 1, 2019 Not stupid questions Wayne. The mixing tube should be 8x the ID of the mixing tube and 9" is 18 x ID. Try a 4"-5" max mixing tube. The flame retention nozzle is on the end of the burner tube the flame comes out. I don't like bell reducers for the flare but a lot of guys make them work. That one looks to be a 1/2" x 1" bell reducer and that's a bit much. Are 1/2"x 3/4" bell reducers available? Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 To be fair: My primary concern was the configuration of the cast part of the burner, which appears to have too small a diameter in its air intake. But Amal burners have a good reputation, so judgement should be suspended on that account; especially since this is a smaller burner at a bargain price. It would actually please me to be wrong about this burner, under the circumstances; that being a small burner for $40 Why the negative comments about its mixing tube length and choice of reducer then?!? Because they are very likely to degrade the burner's performance--and thus to cover my six;. but the truth is, that they are also as easy a pie to fix. Why come clean now? A good commercial burner at $40 is just too darn important to push off the table Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WayneF Posted December 30, 2019 Author Share Posted December 30, 2019 Hi all I have now been able to connect up my burner and I have also changed the length of the burner tube to 4" and the reducer is now 1/2 to 3/4. It produces a blue green flame, can you give some advice on what I am looking for in the flame Cheers Wayne 20191230_155937.mp4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
671jungle Posted December 31, 2019 Share Posted December 31, 2019 The flame looks rich. Greenish flame from burner= rich, reducing flame. (good for welding and less scale on work. Not good for breathing as it produces lots of carbon monoxide) Pale blue flame from burner= neutral. (good or general forge work and is the hottest) I think. Purplish flame from burner= lean, oxidizing flame. (Not used much, at least by me. Causes scale to form on the work rather quickly from excess oxygen) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
671jungle Posted December 31, 2019 Share Posted December 31, 2019 Also, make sure the seam inside the mix tube is smoothed down. A round rasp close to the pipe ID works for this. The seam can impinge proper mixing. Or try increasing tube length a little. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
671jungle Posted January 1, 2020 Share Posted January 1, 2020 On 12/31/2019 at 11:13 AM, 671jungle said: Also, I forgot to say "change one thing at a time" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WayneF Posted January 1, 2020 Author Share Posted January 1, 2020 Yeah change 1 thing at a time is something I have used and taught throughout my engineering career Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
671jungle Posted January 1, 2020 Share Posted January 1, 2020 2 minutes ago, WayneF said: I have used and taught throughout my engineering career Perfect. How's it coming? Im doing some recon on the amal burners right now. Lots of options for decent prices. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WayneF Posted January 1, 2020 Author Share Posted January 1, 2020 I’ve not made the changes yet still need to get the fire bricks to make the forge itself, I want to get it all built before making changes as I have read here on the forum that the burners behave differently in the forge and out. I currently have a 9” mixing tub and a 1/2” to 1” reducer to test with and of course the pressure adjustment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted January 1, 2020 Share Posted January 1, 2020 That is true, so far as it goes, which likely won't be far enough. The first thing you might look into is a smaller orifice for the gas stream to exit through; first, because a smaller orifice allows a stronger gas stream to exit through it for the same amount of fuel, inducing more air to mix that fuel with. Second, because your burner is made with gas jets sized for two different fuels: propane, and methane. I'm not sure if their are different jets for butane, or whether methane jets will serve for that too. But, propane is a harder fuel to mix air with sufficiently, then either of the other two. Or, I may be completely off the mark. However, I want you to succeed...and you asked for a clue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timgunn1962 Posted January 2, 2020 Share Posted January 2, 2020 I did a bit of playing with jet sizes and found the Butane jetting to work very well on Propane forges. I think the factory jetting is intended for “normal” heating applications which use both primary and secondary air. For Propane forges, there is usually no secondary air so the Propane jetting runs pretty rich and not quite hot enough for welding. The Butane jetting is smaller, so runs less rich and a bit hotter when burning Propane: certainly hot enough for welding bladesmithing steels, though I don’t know whether it will manage WI welding temperature. It’s still rich enough to limit scaling in the forge, so there’s some scope for reducing the jet size further to get even higher temperatures if needed. The Amal jets are available in closely-spaced increments and the sizing is pretty intuitive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted January 2, 2020 Share Posted January 2, 2020 It would be good if someone started an Amal burner thread, to collect information like this on them as (so far) they seem to be a bargain for people who want to buy their burners. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WayneF Posted January 5, 2020 Author Share Posted January 5, 2020 Hi all I finally set up the forge and started her up. Below are 2 videos 1st at 15psi then 10psi Any advise welcome 20200105_122040.mp4 20200105_122133.mp4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
671jungle Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 Interested to see what others say. Other than speed, It's hard to tell what the flame is saying in the daylight. The mix tube looks long for a 1/2". Once in use, the nozzle should recess into the forge a little to reduce degrading. Bell reducers come in 316 stainless which will last longer than black pipe. It looks to be getting pretty hot. If the forge had some baffle doors it would get hotter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 They are daylight videos from a flame in an incandescent forge; Nevertheless, a much improved flame is shown than those outside the forge. The second point to be seen is that the forge has reached high-orange heat without the exhaust opening being partially closed. Conclusion: good enough is good enough. "If it ain't broke it don't need fixing" It could be that these burners are effected far more than other designs from burning in equipment. However, how clean is the exhaust ? A daylight photo isn't the best test for judging the exhaust flame... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WayneF Posted January 9, 2020 Author Share Posted January 9, 2020 HI Mikey To show the best detail what would you recommend when talking the video. I plan on taking the video at night. for the exhaust there is no smoke of any sort that I could see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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