beermeneer Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 so... i need some advice im doing a big project for school and im making a seax knife with a piece of high carbon steel sandwiched between two pieces of low carbon steel. which would require me to forge weld the piece, thats not a problem but my forge can simply not get a piece this long to forge welding temperature. how should i deal with this? should i weld it in sections and risk a bad weld? should i weld the pieces on before drawing it all out? or should i simply drop the idea of making a knife this way? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 Welcome Beermeneer, glad to have you. If you'll put your general location in the header you'll discover how many members live within visiting distance. You're wanting to make a "San Mai" blade which is Japanese for "Three Layers". You don't make pattern welded blades by welding the layers at full length, you weld a billet THEN forge the blade. Forget what you see on Forged in Fire or the intertoobs, that for the most part isn't how it's done. A reasonably easy to calculate how much stock you need to start with and end up with enough for the blade, tang, etc. is to weigh a blade the size or a BIT larger and add maybe 5% - 10% for each heat you think you'll need to do your forging and heat treat. The additional steel is to compensate for loss to scale and other losses. Don't worry, you won't lose the san mi pattern in the forging, even if you don't do an edge quench to produce a "Hamon" the higher carbon goody in the middle of the steel sandwich will be exposed by grinding and an etch will bring it out nicely. Oh, and before you run in circles whooping in glorious joy about being let in on the secrets of bladesmithing I should let you know. I'm not a bladesmith guy but this is an exercise in basic blacksmithing and THAT I do. Frosty The Lucky. Technically San Mai means 3 flat things Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 I could dig a hole in your back yard and using real lump charcoal and a hair dryer have a forge that would weld a goodly length piece of San Mai. What's the problem with your forge? BTW the Seax , predate modern steels; have you thought of using real wrought iron and blister steel for it? (And were forged using charcoal not coal) Stop by and I'll give you some real wrought iron to use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLAG Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 Amersfoort is in the Netherlands, Europe. A long way from New Mexico. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beermeneer Posted November 19, 2019 Author Share Posted November 19, 2019 i would use traditional steel. but i simply dont have enough confidence to use materials im completely unfamiliar with in such an important project Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pnut Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 Can you just make it mono- steel? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beermeneer Posted November 19, 2019 Author Share Posted November 19, 2019 i could. but thats not very interesting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pnut Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 No, but it's more interesting than no seax at all. Think of it as a plan B just in case you're running out of time or options. Pnut Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beermeneer Posted November 19, 2019 Author Share Posted November 19, 2019 that is certainly true, ill keep it as a plan b Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 Slag: Amersfoort is also in South Africa; his location doesn't specify. How did you know which one it was? BeerMenhir: How good are your forge welding skills? If you weld with ease then this project is not a big issue---as long as it's not a Langseax! Try to find 2 steels that mover fairly similarly when hot and weld up a billet as suggested and then draw it out. You can do some fun things with patterning like a modified ladder where the grind exposes alternating mild/HC as teeth---make the slotting at an angle for a toothed appearance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLAG Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 Herr Powers, I did not know about Amersfoort, South Africa. Thank you for that factoid. (yes I am going to look it up post haste). But Amersfoort S. A. is still a long way from New Mexico. Regards, SLAG. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted November 20, 2019 Share Posted November 20, 2019 Many places have a naming double/triple/usw. Here in New Mexico we have a Las Vegas and a San Antonio and a Columbus, usw, (and a Socorro and an Albuquerque---I was surprised to see this one other places). Many of these were found in areas that were colonized or had heavy emigration to them from a certain place, Hence "New" England, "New" Jersey, "New" South Wales...I happened to remember that SA had a historical tie to the Netherlands and so searched on Amersfoort South Africa and presto! It's going really to get interesting when we have to remember to list our planet, Sol 3, to specify locations, . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted November 20, 2019 Share Posted November 20, 2019 3 hours ago, beermeneer said: i would use traditional steel. but i simply dont have enough confidence to use materials im completely unfamiliar with in such an important project How familiar are you with San mai? What do you define as "Traditional" steel? More specifically what is the time and technology period steel you wish to use? The origin of most built up and or folded steel is from before folk knew how to produce good steel reliably. It was easier to make too hard/brittle steel in conjunction with cast iron, wrought and many grades in between. With training and practice the refiner could tell what was what within reason. The smith would buy a selection for the product s/he needed to make. If it were a blade then layering hard and soft steel in a billet, drawing it out, folding and repeating gave the best chances of a blade that held an edge but wasn't so brittle it snapped in use. So, help us help you. What do you want for "traditional?" How good are your grinder skills? You WILL have to grind or file or scrape or . . . ? to finish your blade. It's a more demanding skill than forge welding if you're not welding exotic metal alloys of course. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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