Elciteeve Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 Good morning all! I have acquired a piece of 2.75” x 14” x 24” mystery steel which I would like to use as an anvil. My current plan is to cut this in half, machine out a hardy hole and pritchel, then weld it back together in a 5.5” x 12” x 14” configuration. Once that is done I am going to weld on a top plate of tool steel (any input on what might be best for that, greatly appreciated. I’m finding S7 and the like to be too expensive for my pay rate) I understand the top plate has to be a full pen weld, but does the base component also need to be full pen? That would be practically impossible for my abilities. Unless maybe I forge welded it , but xxxxxxx what an undertaking that would be… I’d have to build a new forge to accommodate that size material, ha! I’m hoping if I chamfer the edges one or more inches, or xxxx even just mitering the edge at a full 45 would be doable. Would that be enough? Or is this plan doomed before it even starts, maybe I’m better off just using the plate as is accepting a smaller face? Thanks for any advice! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 How do you plan to do the heat treat? A full Penetration weld is the best way to go about it but will definitely affect any prior heat treat. (Don't forget the preheat and post heat for welding as well!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elciteeve Posted October 4, 2019 Author Share Posted October 4, 2019 Yes, I fully intend to pre / post heat treat etc. I have a large stack of fire brick which I plan to make a temporary kiln / forge out of just for the heat treating. It will be temporary as I will be using kao wool (sp?) and bent sheet metal to encase the thing in, but it will not be welded together as a forge that large won't really be practical for me long term. I'm hoping 3 venturi burners will heat the thing sufficiently. If not, I'll just have to make more burners. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 When I went to an anvil repair day we just used a weed burner and a roll of kaowool and used an IR thermometer to check temps. I was just checking as many welders don't do much with HC steels and so forget about HAZ cracking.(Also heat helps with penetration!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elciteeve Posted October 4, 2019 Author Share Posted October 4, 2019 Yeah I don't do this sort of thing often enough to know the correct temps off the top of my head, but I worked in fab shops and machine shops long enough to know I need to have it sorted out before I start Most guys I know just do basically what you described with a large rosebud on the plate for an hour or so and get to work. I plan to take IR readings and anneal the thing post welding and do one last round of machining when it's welded up before I do the heat treating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIGGUNDOCTOR Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 As I see it, the anvil is ready to use as is. Stand it up on end and get to work. 2.75" x 14" is plenty of surface to work on since it only has to be as big as the hammer face. Cold mild steel is harder than yellow hot steel, so get going. Look at what Brian Brazeal uses for a plate anvil.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 Now that you mention it I used to have and use a 199# HB Farrier'sanvil that was around 3" wide. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pnut Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 Dress the edges and use it as is. Pnut Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goods Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 Or cut it as planned use one piece like mentioned above and make the other into a striking anvil. Lots of options! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elciteeve Posted October 5, 2019 Author Share Posted October 5, 2019 I have a large piece of square bar which I currently use as my anvil. I'm looking to get to the next level. I want to start making top tools and the like. Thus, I'm making my next anvil a bit larger and a bit more anvil-ish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 Unfortunately edge welding plates together and using on the flat will be a big step backwards as far as an effective anvil. Stood on end the bar you're using now is far superior. If you need a hardy hole make a portable hole rather than try and make something that looks like the face on a London pattern and doesn't perform well. Portable holes have a lot going for them besides just holding bottom tools. Orrrrrr you can weld square tubing to the side of your shaft anvil and have a connected hardy hole. Having the hardy hole connected to the anvil has it's up sides as well and prichel holes can either be added to the build when you weld it up or simply be another bottom tool. I just lay my bolster on the anvil when I need it. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elciteeve Posted October 5, 2019 Author Share Posted October 5, 2019 I know it wont be like a proper forge welded anvil, but I'm hoping this will be decent enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles R. Stevens Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 Well you need full thickness welds, so you either gouge out the seams so you leave just a sliver of stock or you place a piece of round between them so you can reach in. The seam, especialy the horizontal one will absorbe energy when it moves (and it will move ever so slightly). the London pattern anvil has been around for only about 200 years and like all multi tools is good at a lot of things but not necessarily the best at any of them. Before the advent of the London pattern a solid lump of steel (say 4” square, tho more like 3” with 3 generations of mushrooming) and a bick (horn, some times double ended) was used. Early bronze anvils look really strange being multi ended (basically a cross that was plunged into the socket so as to provide defend working surfaces). Your next level does not have to be trying to weld up and carve out a London pattern. I am with TP, carve different profiles in the edge of the plate and then you can flip it around Jock over on Anvil fire has an illustration of such a beast, unfortunantly he gets pissy if you link to his page as he considers it band with theft. He dose however have some exelent thoughts on heavy metal sculpture (anvil building). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pnut Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 For hardy tooling you can cut a square hole in a stump and put a piece of square steel tube in it and use the plate as is. If you've already cut the plate in half use one half as an anvil and the other half you can grind different swage shapes and a hardy hole In to use as a bolster, dishing, and for hardy tooling. Pnut Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 Steel 12 x 12 x 1/2 inches weighs 20 pounds. Your piece of steel 23 x 14 x 2.75 inches should weigh about 256 pounds. Placed on end, that would make a nice anvil and anvil weight. If you purchase an anvil to gain a hardie hole and a pritchel hole, how much are you going to use the holes? Ehough to justify the price of the anvil? Make a portable hole when you need a hardie hole. A pritchel hole can be made for the portable hole or use a bolster plate. Bottom tools can be attached to a saddle that fits the plate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles R. Stevens Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 Here are some options... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlatLiner Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 I like Charles ideas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles R. Stevens Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 Ah, the $.50 graph composition book from Wally World. Best tool going for an over active mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tanglediver Posted October 6, 2019 Share Posted October 6, 2019 That chunk does sound like it has similar proportions to a functional swage block. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles R. Stevens Posted October 6, 2019 Share Posted October 6, 2019 But unlike a swaggering block it is steel, thus one edge would make a good anvil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlpservicesinc Posted October 6, 2019 Share Posted October 6, 2019 If time is an unlimited factor then anything is possible if one has the tools and knowledge and materials. Forgo the money. With this said. The chunk of steel on it's own right would be a great anvil and is what I would use.. In reality I don't need anything more than this except for convience sake. A pritchel hole is good for what exactly? LOL. I find I use bottom tooling for punching and most the things I make need a much larger hole than the pritchel so the hardie hole is the next step up with even that is to small for punching or drifting of hammer, eyes and such. So switch to using the vise which now is any size I want the opening to be. For round punching of a clean hole I use a punch block which is just a series of holes drilled into a mild steel block which I also use for making hinge pintles. So one could argue the most important part is really the horn. LOL And even then nearly all things can be forged over a radius without an open space under it.. Jasents anvil is tops on my list of likeables. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elciteeve Posted October 6, 2019 Author Share Posted October 6, 2019 I think Charles might be on to something. Seems like I have the entire community advising me away from my plan so I'm inclined to consider a different approach. Any thoughts on pining down the swage block concept? Seems like if the intent is to flip it over for convenience, the pinning and un pinning should be quick and simple. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlpservicesinc Posted October 6, 2019 Share Posted October 6, 2019 When I was much, much younger I had dreams of making a swage like device to use in the shop. I had limited resources (poor, poor, poor) and scrounged for nearly all my materials and such. If you have the ability to weld and grind your best option is to weld on the shape and forms you want to have on the block. It can be much faster to do. Well unless you have a CNC plasma table that will cut 2 or 3" thick material. or are into man handling a grinder for awhile. I don't think I would bother with shapes for swages unless It was a demo thing where I only wanted 3 pieces of equipment/tooling. Anvil, vise and forge. Then I can see having some cutouts for advanced forged items where the depression was needed or the only way to make it happen. Again because it was must have to create the piece. At the last NEB meet I forged a Carving hatchet. Only thing I brought was the eye mandrel and a file for the welded on cutting edge. . I was lacking the many desirable tools that would have make the job easier.. IE easier. Inventiveness comes into play and success can be warranted. Again, anvil, vise and forge, hammer.. Oh, I did bring my own hammers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Williams Posted October 6, 2019 Share Posted October 6, 2019 I would do this with it, or make the tools that Mr. Stephens sketched out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlpservicesinc Posted October 6, 2019 Share Posted October 6, 2019 For most forging fun this style of anvil by Brian B. is a great one to go to. Most items are only forged as wide as the hammer face (only effected that width) is so it's perfect being only 2-3" thick. Not only that but the mass of the block is completely under the forging sections with no spaces (most bang for the buck). I am not a fan of the stand and since it will be bolted to the floor would have made the legs straighter. I am planning to have a number of these for use in the teaching facility once it's up and running for beginners to use as well as seasoned people to try. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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