SLAG Posted September 16, 2019 Share Posted September 16, 2019 I.F.I. members, Good news! Archeo-metallurgists, have long wondered about the origin of tin for making bronze. Bronze is an alloy of copper and tin. Copper was mined at many sites in the Mediterranean and Middle East. But there are few deposits of tin. The main sources of tin were in Cornwall and Devon England. There were a few deposits elsewhere in Iran, one in Thailand, and Afghanistan. So where did the tin come from? It has just been announced by the research gang at Heidelberg University has determined that England was the main source. Read a thrilling report of their findings reported in, https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/09/190913120830.htm SLAG. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anvil Posted September 16, 2019 Share Posted September 16, 2019 interesting. thanks. it's hard to imagine 2000 years before Christ there were established trade routes between England and the Middle East. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pnut Posted September 16, 2019 Share Posted September 16, 2019 Very interesting. Coincidentally I was just reading about copper mining in pre 1600 North America, in the Michigan, Minnesota, Canadian border region of modern day U.S. Pnut Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLAG Posted September 16, 2019 Author Share Posted September 16, 2019 Metallurgical-archeology enthusiasts, I am delighted that some I. F. I. members found the article, of interest. Mr. Anvil, there is some, (controversial), evidence that Christ's family was involved in the trade and importation of Cornwall tin. Those traders had to sail out of the Mediterranean Ocean, through the straits of Gibraltar. (the Pillars of Hercules) to get to England. These traders kept details of their voyages to themselves. Ancient world trade secrets. But, that makes research in this area of technological archeology, very difficult. Mr. Pnut, Copper has been mined there for thousands of years. The area even has deposits of native copper. Copper minerals are generally very colorful. Showing shades of green and blue. (for example, malachite, (green), and covellite (blue) etc. ). There are theories that the Phoenicians (of the Lebanon area), traded for that copper thousands of years ago. (they may have crossed the Atlantic Ocean and down the St. Lawrence river system and through the Great Lakes. The purported evidence consists of rock carving depictions, found in several inland sites, that resemble Phoenician trading vessels, among other evidence. Isotopic analysis of European and new world copper may one day settle that question. Great fun. New developments will be posted as soon as the myrmidons at SLAG Industries l.l.c. see them. Regards, SLAG. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pnut Posted September 16, 2019 Share Posted September 16, 2019 29 minutes ago, SLAG said: The purported evidence consists of rock carving depictions, found in several inland sites, that resemble Phoenician trading vessels, among other evidence. I thought I mentioned speculation about this very thing but going back and reading my post I did not. Oh well. Thanks for the link to the article. Pnut Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLAG Posted September 17, 2019 Author Share Posted September 17, 2019 Mr. Pnut, You are welcome. To my eyes, (both of them), those carved inscriptions, (carvings), bear a strong resemblance to Phoenician trading vessels. Iirc, some other evidence was also found. (but it has been a fair amount of time since I read it). Regards, SLAG. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pnut Posted September 17, 2019 Share Posted September 17, 2019 Indeed, the carvings do bear quite the resemblance to Phoenician vessels. I've heard this theory bandied about for at least the last ten or fifteen years. I even seen a television series about a geologist that would do analysis of stone carvings and inscriptions did an episode about it. I think that was the first I had heard about it. Very interesting. You are right it could be put to rest fairly quickly with isotope analysis. It may have been done by now, I haven't actively done any hunting for info in a long while. Pnut Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anvil Posted September 19, 2019 Share Posted September 19, 2019 On 9/16/2019 at 11:30 AM, SLAG said: evidence that Christ's family was involved in the trade and importation of Cornwall tin. Interesting. Thor Heyerdahl(sp) and his two adventures grabbed my interest in this year's ago. It shouldn't have been a surprise that they would be trading with England. With all this early commerce it is all the more puzzling to me just why the Americas did not have a viable iron industry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLAG Posted September 19, 2019 Author Share Posted September 19, 2019 Anvil, Good question. SLAG. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pnut Posted September 19, 2019 Share Posted September 19, 2019 L'anse aux Meadows is what made me take a closer look. It's not hard to believe that a water route via the St Lawrence river would have made trade between inland north America and the British isles possible. Viking long boats resemble the inscriptions that were mentioned earlier. Pnut Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nobody Special Posted September 19, 2019 Share Posted September 19, 2019 Not to say that much tin didn't come from Brittain, but I know there was at least one major mine in Turkey they found that children worked heavily in. And they found some mines up near the Czech border in Germany. Heck, I'd be surprised if there weren't trade networks. It's something as old as human kind. Take when you can, trade when you can't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted September 19, 2019 Share Posted September 19, 2019 I thought I'd read some years ago there were isotopic analysis of ancient bronze that indicated a large % of copper was from the Great Lakes deposits. What we think of as Viking pattern ships have been around since they were made of bundled reeds in the earliest known Mesopotamian Civilizations. Maybe in the region of 5,000 BCE though Minoan ships were almost blueprints for the Viking hulls. Sailing through the Gates of Herculese was an adventure just because of tidal flow. Land routes were pretty common though, many are major highways today. Cross roads are cities and nations. Yeah, we've been trading as long as we've been making tools. Unk knows where the good flint is and trades it to Og for knapped tools then trades tools back where the village digs flint and tans hides. Native copper from the Chitina region lodes of Alaska have been found to the tip of S. America. I forget the results but the "red metal" bronze hand axe Otze was carrying was isotopic or perhaps xray something analyzed and nothing in it were from even close to where he was found. Heck, analysis of his teeth showed he grew up quite a ways away. I think I have the articles bookmarked but I'd have to read half of them to pick them out. Interesting article Slag, thanks for the link. I'll have some cites to follow instead of doing fall pickup and cleaning. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwynlaredogranger Posted September 26, 2019 Share Posted September 26, 2019 otze! they performed spectral analysis of his hair as well as the animal hair around him and found copper in such concentration that they think he may have been a foundryman, or so i remember reading once a long time ago, shortly after he was found... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pnut Posted September 26, 2019 Share Posted September 26, 2019 I read the same thing. He wasn't from where he was found. They speculated he was traveling from village to village plying his trade. Pnut Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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