mpc Posted August 23, 2019 Share Posted August 23, 2019 This was cleaned up REALLY well, placed in the forge and heated to a dark red, fluxed (Borax), heated more, fluxed again, then left to heat until it looked (to me) like a bright yellow. Then I banged on it enough to make sure both sides were making good contact. I let it cool to black, then I put it in some water (so I could touch it), ground the edges to see how it looked, and then tested it by banging a screwdriver into the V to see how quick it would split. I’ve had a pistachio give me more trouble coming apart than this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anvil Posted August 23, 2019 Share Posted August 23, 2019 A yellow is a good forging temp but too cold for a forge weld, depending on your experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irondragon Forge ClayWorks Posted August 23, 2019 Share Posted August 23, 2019 I'm with anvil on not hot enough and didn't let it soak at the higher temp so the inside of the join was at the right temp. Looks like a high carbon rasp to me. What type of forge? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpc Posted August 23, 2019 Author Share Posted August 23, 2019 It’s a 3 burner propane. I don’t know how old the lining is, what it may have been treated with, or how thick it was (originally). I’ve been futzing with the intakes, putting bricks in front of the door, and stuff to get it hotter but I’m basically just taking stabs in the dark. I didn’t build the forge, I got it for a song from some kid who was moving. I want to pull out the liner and do the insulation again but I never seem to have time to chase that pig. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irondragon Forge ClayWorks Posted August 23, 2019 Share Posted August 23, 2019 I went to the thread you posted when you got the forge. From the picture it looks plenty hot enough to forge weld in. I suggest trying again and letting the steel in the forge a little longer to see if it will get to what I call high yellow (almost sparkling) then just tap the weld to set it. Then back into the fire for a second heat and more hammering. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pnut Posted August 23, 2019 Share Posted August 23, 2019 IDF&C summed it up nicely. Pnut Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpc Posted August 23, 2019 Author Share Posted August 23, 2019 Thanks! Unfortunately, I’ve exceeded my available play time for this week (but I had a really good excuse) so I’ll have to see if I can get time to try again this weekend. Maybe if my clients would stop committing crimes I would be better at this whole blacksmithing thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted August 23, 2019 Share Posted August 23, 2019 Yes firm not sharp blows as sharp ones can bounce it apart. (And as the fellow who taught me my first 2 on 1 class on billet welding would say: "Don't look at it; HIT IT!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forgingforfun Posted August 24, 2019 Share Posted August 24, 2019 My very thought is your yellow wasn't yellow enough, and maybe your hits were too hard Flux melting and looking fluid is misleading , some say use a pointed rod to touch metal and when they stick it's ready, different levels of yellow color is key, a little brighter is the answer and it may be the difference of 100 degrees but it matters.i have done San mai and some forks with welding and got frustrated, but keep trying, clean metal, flux, and right heat, quick travel to anvil, dont drop metal to anvil to ready to hit it, and hit it with some pressure but not to much to shear it best I can give you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted August 24, 2019 Share Posted August 24, 2019 In one pic I can see a dark spot on the join face, this is BAD it's scale that'll be trapped in the weld an Inclusion. Polish the faces up till they're all shiny clean. Flux it before you put it in the fire and wire it closed. That way as soon as the flux melts it covers the join faces and prevents oxidization. Get it hotter next time, use a heavy hammer and firm blows do NOT smack it. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlpservicesinc Posted August 27, 2019 Share Posted August 27, 2019 A rasp will weld at a fairly low temperature. The suggestion about using a rod is a good one. I prefer a flat blade verses round about 1/16" or less in thickness. Flat is nice because it's easy enough to pull off with just twist verses pulling the whole piece out of the fire. close up the gap and make sure there is no gap when it goes into the fire for welding. the metal will be nearly welded before you even pull it from the fire if it is clean and at welding temperature. I prefer very like quick blows with not being overly heavy. Once the weld is set I increase the force of the blows to finish out the weld. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anvil Posted August 27, 2019 Share Posted August 27, 2019 Also in your pics the back end(poll) is burnt. On the front end, where the bit goes, I would upset and scarf the end at least a little. If not you are more likely to get a cold shut. Lol, By the way, what are you making? If its a froe, you can use mild steel or wrought iron. If an axe, Id make it as a froe with a bit forge welded in. If its a "thang", you are right on the money and just need a bit more forge welding practice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertie_bassett Posted August 27, 2019 Share Posted August 27, 2019 (edited) just a thought ( from someone with zero experience) you say you brought it up to yellow, then banged on it till it was all touching then cooled it down to check the weld? did you heat and forge it together only the once? or did you heat and forge it a few times?as i understand things you take one welding heat to get everything touching and to initially set the weld. then you get it back up to welding temp and give it some heavier blows to really forge it together.i dont think the initial weld has a lot of strength, and suspect the cooling in water would have weakened it a bit. only real way to tell is to try again though. so good luck ps being my first post here it would be worth a second opinion! Please don't use double spacing. Edited August 27, 2019 by Mod30 Double spacing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irondragon Forge ClayWorks Posted August 27, 2019 Share Posted August 27, 2019 I think you have a pretty good grasp on things bertie. BTW welcome to IFI from this side of the pond. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nobody Special Posted August 27, 2019 Share Posted August 27, 2019 I'm with Bassett. Heat issues aside, even if you achieve a decent forge weld, an initial one may not have a lot of strength. Hitting it too hard after cooling some, ot cooling it off too fast, especially by quenching can cause the weld to come right back apart. Gentle firm blows, let it cool some, quick clean with a brush, more flux, and back to a welding heat one or two more times, with stronger hits each time. Makes a much more solid weld. Don't beat it like crazy til after the last one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpc Posted August 29, 2019 Author Share Posted August 29, 2019 On 8/27/2019 at 3:18 PM, Nobody Special said: cooling it off too fast, especially by quenching can cause the weld to come right back apart You know that feeling when you realize that you’ve been walking around with your fly down since you walked out of the bathroom 15 minutes ago. I’m having that now. In my haste to see if it worked, I let it air cool to black and then dunked it in the water barrel so I could handle it. Then I hit it with a wedge. So... My problem is a combination of impatience and stupidity. Maybe I’ll get a chance to try again this weekend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irondragon Forge ClayWorks Posted August 29, 2019 Share Posted August 29, 2019 Not stupidity, but inexperience and definitely impatience, I have the same problem at times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anvil Posted August 29, 2019 Share Posted August 29, 2019 5 hours ago, mpc said: In my haste to see if it worked, I let it air cool to black and then dunked it in the water barrel so I could handle it If you have a good weld, it wont come apart. If not, it will come apart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teenylittlemetalguy Posted August 29, 2019 Share Posted August 29, 2019 I see lots of good advice here, but think it would be worthwhile to contemplate the gas/air mix. Welding in propane gets a bad wrap because so many burners out there run and heat just fine, but the mix is still off for welding. A little too much oxygen and bam!- no weld, or crummy weld and the smith thinks it is their fault. Try putting a small handful of charcoal in the forge to soak up excess oxygen next time you weld and see if it helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billyO Posted September 5, 2019 Share Posted September 5, 2019 On 8/29/2019 at 11:17 AM, teenylittlemetalguy said: A little too much oxygen and bam!- no weld, or crummy weld and the smith thinks it is their fault While this is true, if you've got a few inches of fire (AKA dragon's breath) coming out of the forge, you should have a sufficiently rich environment and no need for the extra coal. I'd guess it was a problem with having only one heat which merely "set" the weld and no forging heats following... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teenylittlemetalguy Posted September 5, 2019 Share Posted September 5, 2019 If you are dumping too much fuel into a forge it will have to get out to burn. It doesn't matter what the mix is, too much fuel is too much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billyO Posted September 5, 2019 Share Posted September 5, 2019 3 hours ago, teenylittlemetalguy said: If you are dumping too much fuel into a forge it will have to get out to burn. It doesn't matter what the mix is, too much fuel is too much. Please don't read this as being argumentative and I apologize if I'm not following where you are going, but isn't this the whole point? Provided that the forge is at welding temps, you want more fuel than there is available oxygen in the forge (to ensure an oxygen free environment) so that the fuel will burn outside the forge, where there is adequate oxygen for a flame. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teenylittlemetalguy Posted September 6, 2019 Share Posted September 6, 2019 No sweat, I don't want to be that argument guy either. Life is to short. My words weren't correct. By fuel I mean combined air and gas. If your mix is way to high in air and low in gas you can still put so much of that bad mix into a forge that flames will come out the door. It is not a reliable indicator that you have a rich enough mix to weld. I have failed to weld many times with flames shooting out the door and metal thinking about melting in the forge all because there was just a little too much air. a small adjustment to the mix and I welded just fine (and at lower temps). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlpservicesinc Posted September 6, 2019 Share Posted September 6, 2019 When working with steels or wrought iron. When welding there is ideally a Neutral environment where carbon is not added or removed. Have you ever gas welded with a carbon rich (reducing) mix. or an O2 rich weld? what are the results after the weld in ductility, elongation, etc, etc. Welding flux serves 2 functions and the limit of attack of O2 personally is the lowest priority for me. the ability to lower the melting point of scale to me is more important. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billyO Posted September 6, 2019 Share Posted September 6, 2019 12 minutes ago, teenylittlemetalguy said: By fuel I mean combined air and gas. If your mix is way to high in air and low in gas you can still put so much of that bad mix into a forge that flames will come out the door. It is not a reliable indicator that you have a rich enough mix to weld. Gotcha! Good point. To avoid this, what I do is heat my forge with a normal mix (running around 3-4 lbs of pressure) working on other things, then when ready to forge weld, bump the flow up to about 8-9 lbs without adding any more air. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.