JHCC

Converting an inverted hydraulic press into a light-duty forging press

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That was the old fluid; I needed to drain the system in order to take the cylinder out and figure out next steps.

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Just dirty? It should be fine then let it drain and drip as long as reasonable, the more crud that drains out the better. 

You should be able to just button it up and fill it as described. 

Frosty The Lucky. 

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On 6/9/2019 at 11:15 PM, Frosty said:

The nut won't unscrew? ooh, that's stinky. 

Success! (And an object lesson in what to do when you don’t have a sufficiently large wrench.)

50C6A0C8-9E34-41AD-A768-35D61F3D09DA.jpeg

17 hours ago, JHCC said:

There's another detail that needs to be taken into consideration [...] Not sure how I could bolt everything together if both ends of each bolt are male.

Here’s what I mean. The tie rods are threaded into the bottom cap:

B8117E63-71B9-430B-9571-465C1CE12EBD.jpeg

And pass through the gland on the top and have nuts threaded on from above:

5F3B1944-2A27-46EE-BA94-FBE9BE1C932A.jpeg

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I see what you mean my idea can't work. Bolts through the table top and down it is. You're going to have to buy longer bolts though. I wonder what they cost, can you see what grade those are? 

3,000psi is going to need probably grade 5 at least but 8s would be way overkill. 

Do you have something to match the threads on the shaft or maybe modify what's there. Does the shaft have wrench flats? That makes life so much easier, I have a strap wrench that's sometimes enough, might've worked on that 1.5" is pretty small though.

Ah, I'm just flapping my neurons over solved issues. That puppy is coming along nicely, I can't wait to see the hot squishy video.

Frosty The Lucky.

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8 hours ago, Frosty said:

Do you have something to match the threads on the shaft or maybe modify what's there. Does the shaft have wrench flats? That makes life so much easier,

The pulling extension is welded onto the end of a nut, so I just screwed that all the way down onto the end of the shaft and twisted against that. It was tough going to start, but then I realized that there was some paint residue on the threads. Once I got that cleaned off with a wire brush, everything came right apart. 

52F80B65-C325-49C3-943C-216B6CCD335B.jpeg

I’m thinking that I can cut that nut off the extension and weld it onto the underside of the movable die, using the other one as a lock nut. 

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8 hours ago, Frosty said:

Bolts through the table top and down it is. You're going to have to buy longer bolts though.

Making sure to account for the 1/4” spacer I’ll need to clear the little hump of the hydraulic inlet:

8621DA69-34C7-4C48-B885-96264C3421AF.jpeg

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8 hours ago, Frosty said:

You're going to have to buy longer bolts though. I wonder what they cost, can you see what grade those are? 

3,000psi is going to need probably grade 5 at least but 8s would be way overkill. 

I just found out that the hydraulic divisions of Parker Hennefin are literally just down the street from my steel supplier, so I will be giving them a call. How convenient!

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I have a couple few hydraulics shops close by but Parker Hennefin! Convenient heck, that's Santa's workshop, you a lucky guy.

If you're going to run the bolts through the table top to the ram spacers on the bolts will work a treat. Easy peasy.

Frosty The Lucky.

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Drilled pilot holes for remounting the cylinder, and marked a new clearance hole for the ram. Lots more holes to drill; I really wish the throat on my drill press were deeper. 

B2B1A58B-1390-4804-AD7C-AC30AEE78226.jpeg

(NB: the new position is centered on the table; the original clearance hole was off-center.)

2 hours ago, Frosty said:

Parker Hennefin! Convenient heck, that's Santa's workshop, you a lucky guy.

Alas, it turned out to be the hydraulic valve division, not the hydraulic cylinder division. No help there. Ah, well. 

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Do you have a beefy hand drill, 1/2" eg.? Plug the existing center hole, pien the plug it in place is perfect, center punch and use a hole saw. it'll save a LOT of drilling itsy bitsy holes and breaking bits connecting them not to mention all the die grinder work smoothing things out. Have a cutting torch with 1 1/2" capacity? That'd be MUCH faster and not a lot of grinding if you're good with a torch. 

Bummer you picked the wrong division to live near. My supplier envy is much assuaged though.  

Frosty The Lucky.

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One of my neighbors down the way has a cutting torch, I think. I'll check. 

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It's 1 1/2" thick, that's a lot for most home hobby torches but doable if you're slow and steady.

Frosty The Lucky.

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I’m a little late to the party here, so I’m going to back track a little. I have a 140a mig, and unless you’re a very competent welder I wouldn’t trust that for what I think you plan on doing. I have a stick welder also and use that for the vast majority of structural type welds. Having said that, I’m fairly competent with both, if you want a hand bring it on over.

Sounds like you got a pretty good deal on your project.  I’m interested to see how it ends up working out.

I agree with Frosty, at that thickness your pushing it for some torches. I haven’t tried cutting anything that thick with mine, but I doubt it would be very clean. 

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That would be awesome, Tom; I may just take you up on that. 

3 hours ago, Frosty said:

It’s 1-1/2" thick, that's a lot for most home hobby torches but doable if you're slow and steady.

1-1/2” is the diameter of the cylinder rod; the top is 1-1/4”. Even if it torch-cuts rough, I can always die grind it. That's still probably easier than drilling and chiseling.

 It also occurred to me that — just as the cylinder is held together with tie rods — I could add a tie rod or two to each corner of the frame, bolting it down through the top the same way that the cylinder will be bolted to its underside. Even if I’m only able to do the wire welding, that would be some significant extra insurance.

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John: you could weld a number of bolt tabs to each upright member and bolt it to the table say four each 3/4" grade 8 bolts per post would be plenty of overkill for 25 tons. Heavy weight angle iron would let you make long welds up the posts so there wasn't a point stresser like a flat tab butted to the post.

However it sounds like you have an experienced welder with the right equipment offering to help out.

Boy, that's a tough choice. What would I do, what WOULD I do? :huh: Let me think about this one a while I'll get back. 

Don't make me tell you I'm joking. Stick welder and someone experienced welding structural. Make arrangements yes?

Thanks Tom, you take a weight off my shoulders. It's one thing to give advice and another entirely to know the expertise and equipment is on hand. Thank you, I'm pretty fond of John I'd sure hate to see something go south on him with that kind of force pushing it. 

Frosty The Lucky.

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Still have to design the frame and buy the steel, but I'll definitely make the arrangements once I have! With the mechanicals removed, it'll be easier to transport, too.

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You need a pickup truck John. An engine hoist can easily be modified to work as a lift in a pickup. You won't be so limited by what'll fit in the back seat or what you can lift. 

Good decision, peace of mind is worth gold.

Frosty The Lucky.

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Trailers are good, I don't drive our pickup if I don't have to, it turns like a river barge but it's good for dump runs and building materials. I can get the gear I use at demos in the Dodge Journey SUV.  

I don't think it'll be too long and I'll rent a pickup if I need one.

Frosty The Lucky.

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I carried an amazing amount of stuff in the old Honda Odyssey, but it died, alas. 

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23 minutes ago, JHCC said:

I carried an amazing amount of stuff in the old Honda Odyssey, but it died, alas. 

One straw too many? :o Poor thing, did you have to shoot it and put it out of it's misery? :(

Frosty The Lucky.

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No, it got to the point that repairs were costing more than it was worth.

On 6/13/2019 at 6:58 PM, Irondragon Forge & Clay said:

a smaller trailer will haul a lot of gear.

Lisa might take some convincing on the advisability of purchasing a trailer, but I could always point out how much yarn it would hold.

 

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Good idea John that'll score you an enclosed trailer. Just hope it doesn't turn into long term storage, our place is full of plastic totes with snap on lids. The bags of raw wool are downstairs in the basement. Deb wanted the Connex. 

Frosty The Lucky.

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Getting back to design questions....

So, the options for construction of the bridge and the moving part are (1) weld a bar on edge between the verticals, which means that there will be an internal guide:

901CCA87-1B2B-46F6-9E8B-672E5E9879F8.jpeg

And (2) weld the verticals together and have external guides that wrap around the flanges of the C-channel:

0EFD98AD-1239-4035-B218-1A314ADBBC85.jpeg

Thoughts?

(Note: drawings not exactly to scale.)

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