thematrixiam

Car heater blower

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Hey all.

I watch a video of a guy that scored a blower motor out of a car at a scrap yard. It's definitely a lot cheaper...

But then you need to figure out the rest of it. Like how do you get 120v to 12v, supply the right amps, and with resistors as well as modulation. 

Anyone know the best/cheapest way to go about doing that? I already have a blower motor. ay272700-5151-3k28 is the part number

any help is greatly appreciated. 

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My take would be to score an exhaust assist blower from a super efficient furnace and skip the conversion.  When they junk and replace a furnace it's not usually the exhaust assist blower that is bad and so many HVAC places will have some in their bone pile.

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27 minutes ago, ThomasPowers said:

score an exhaust assist blower from a super efficient furnace and skip the conversion. 

Very true.

2 things though. I already have bought the Car blower motor. And a car blower motor is designed to go against a much smaller duct system. 

You would have a lot of noise and a lot of excess air, and probably blow the motor.  But yes, they would be very easy to get. Especially for me, since I am a sheetmetal worker. 

 

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NOT the main blower, the exhaust assist blower that on all the furnaces we had went through a duct about the size of the one on my hand crank blowers.

On several of the furnaces we have owned it was SMALLER than the car heater blower---but ran on standard household power.

(On our house in Ohio we had two furnaces and had to replace each one---but not due to the exhaust assist blower going out. 100+ year old house that had been duplexed around the 1940's and reverted in the 1960's but the separated power, water and heat were maintained.)

With your access, check them out.

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5 minutes ago, ThomasPowers said:

exhaust assist blower 

Ahh. the inducer motor. 
That could potentially work. The housing may have to change a bit though. Also I am not sure how the static pressure involved in them. Nor am I sure on the output.

As I already have the car blower, it seems redundant. But, if I ever were to make another one I could use it. I could also compare them at any time. 

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Please let us know if you get a chance to compare.  Good to know it was a jargon mismatch. When we had our furnaces changed out they used "exhaust assist". What I remember was that they were fairly small; not excessively noisy and ran off household power.

(That house originally had a manually charged coal furnace.  Unfortunately they didn't leave me any coal...I think they got rid of it when the house converted to gas furnace(s) It originally had both gas and electric lights---still had a duplex fixture in the attic. )

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2 hours ago, thematrixiam said:

Like how do you get 120v to 12v, supply the right amps, and with resistors as well as modulation. 

The electrical stuff is beyond my ken, but one of the easiest ways to moderate the blast from an electric blower is to use some mechanism that limits the flow of air from the blower to the tuyere. The simplest way to do this is to leave the blower and the tuyere unconnected, but with the blower pointed towards the tuyere's intake; by changing their alignment and the gap between the two, you change the amount of air that can make it in.

Another option is to put some kind of valve that blocks the airflow, spills out the extra air, or both. One of our members used a conduit fitting with an adjustable cover to allow the extra air to escape, and I myself built a gate valve out of scrap lumber that worked really well.

Depending on the motor type, you can also regulate the blast by putting an adjustable cover on the air intake. Motors that rely on airflow to keep cool are not good candidates for this option.

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Automotive heater/AC blowers are 12VDC. So working remotely of of your car or truck works well. It is quieter than a bed/raft inflator. This kind of motor typically uses resistors to control speed (typically 3 resistors and a full 12VDC setting) thus the switch on your dash reroughts power to the approriate resistor. So these motors can either be ran if of a reostat (adjustable resistor) or a resistor than provides the air flow needed. As an electric motor only drops as much aperage as it needs and these motors do not use forced air for cooling a slide door works as well, aliviatimg the need to source resistors or reostats. 

I used to be an ASE Master Mechanic. Back a few decades ago, so I am more versemt in electrical than some. Tho some motors will run on either AC or DC, I can’t speak to autamotive blower fan motors, being I have never tried to let the factory installed smoke out of one.

eisier and most likely cheaper is to use an air bed inflator, they come in 12VDC and 120VAC (in the US) and are about the right size (I can hook them directly to 3/4” schedual 40 pipe and use a ball valve to regulate the flow. If one puts a box around it it reduces the sound. I use a wooden box with no bottom and a foot switch from HF. 

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Worth noting that switching options are going to change depending on whether you're using this for solid fuel or for a blown gas burner. My electric blower has a deadman switch that shuts it off when I'm not standing at the forge; I would not recommend such an arrangement on a gas burner.

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15 hours ago, ThomasPowers said:

Please let us know if you get a chance to compare. 

I was discussing with my Journeyman buddy about this. We both came to the conclusion that that fan is not really build for static pressure. If you cover up a 636 pipe of a running furnace it doesn't push back at you. It's wheel isn't really that much of a squirrel cage. The purpose of it is more about creating enough energy to remove products of combustion. Any buoyancy involved would also do some of the lifting as well. Keep in mind, though, it does pull in and push out at the same time. So it may push more when it is pulling nothing. Or it could over heat. Motors are fun like that. If you make the work to easy they just ramp up and over heat. All that said, testing it would be the best option. I have not completed my ribbon burner yet, so I don't know how much is needed.

As per my car blower I was able to find some options.

It runs with a car battery. But I want to limit it from over drawing too much. And I want to be able to plug it in as well. 
A battery charger does work. But you need a stupid one, the smart one simply will just get in the way and not do what you're asking it to do. The smart one auto detects when the battery is full and stops charging. As such, it doesn't even start to charge. Found that out the hard way after I bought a cheap 20 amp 12 volt charger.

My buddys dad was nice enough to gift me a 4 amp 12 volt charger. It works. But the down side to it is that I am not sure if at 4 amp I will be getting enough speed.

The next part will be rigging up a way to change from the connection on the motor to my duct system to my pipe. I bought some heavy adjustable dryer duct. Not the kind that is like paper and punctures. And the ridges aren't so bad, so it shouldn't reduce the speed too much. Also it's only going a short distance so it should be fine.

Now I just need to cast all my stuff and see how it blows with the system on.

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Well, despite what you and your buddy dessided, furnace exhaust fans have been used and worked. There desighned isn’t much different  from the Automotive AC blower. Now as you obviously have the blower in hand, I would suggest adding a small battery (say a lawn mowers battery) that you top off with the charger, source an old floor board starter switch (so you can shut off the air between heats) and a reostat to adjust it .

 

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9 hours ago, Charles R. Stevens said:

Well, despite what you and your buddy dessided, furnace exhaust fans have been used and worked.

Yes me and my buddy are often wrong all the time. 

It is actually better that the inducer motor of a high efficient furnace can handle what is required, CFM, Static air, etc. And not burn out. They would obviously be better option because of the ability to directly use 120 volts. 

I am curious if mid efficient motors specs are different. 

Also, there is a reason why theory doesn't always work. Just because an engineer thinks it will work one way, does not mean that it will. But I'm not an engineer.

My goal is to find the best/cheapest option available. I plan 100% to be wrong constantly and would love it if you could point it out. But saying it in such a way like "despite", "decided", and "have been used and worked" is a little rough. Maybe I am just sensitive. And that is my fault then, not yours. I would then have to say that I am sorry for being upset all the time with your delicate teachings. 

Something more like "Hey Matrix. We were able to get inducer motors working. They are great for the job." probably wouldn't have hurt my feelings so much. But what do I know about feelings...  Not much. 

 

9 hours ago, Charles R. Stevens said:

There (design) isn’t much different  from the Automotive AC blower

Is the Automotive blower AC?
I assume the inducer motor would be.

I would say something here about my knowledge of blower motor design, but I am spent. And I am not sure me sharing is actually doing anything any more. I am wrong. I know nothing. I am sorry I tried.

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I am sorry your feelings got hurt (honestly, no sarcasm) luckily TP has a thick skin,  because he has used those exact blowers and suggested it. 

As to they having similar desighned, they both have squirrel cages, despite one being AC and one being DC.

cheapest would be a $20 bed inflaghter from Wall mart, $5 on clearance or at a yard sale) I have a hand full, both AC and DC. 

One of my faverite benedictions from IFI is “learn from others mistakes and go forth and make new and inventive ones.

you got the right mind set for a smith, and are a good fit for this community as well. Hard headed, reasnubly inteligent, willing to ask questions and not afraid to say what is in your mind. 

Perfect is the enemy of  success. 

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50 minutes ago, thematrixiam said:

 Just because an engineer thinks it will work one way, does not mean that it will. But I'm not an engineer.

Engineers theories said the titanic was unsinkable, and that a bumble bee can not fly.  Its like the guy that joins a smithing site and tells the smiths that a thing can not be done, when they not only are already doing it, but have been doing it for a while,  My 120v furnace fan has been running for me over 11 years for my coal forge no problem

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2 hours ago, Steve Sells said:

Its like the guy that joins a smithing site and tells the smiths that a thing can not be done,

I believe what I said was

On 4/16/2019 at 3:55 AM, thematrixiam said:

All that said, testing it would be the best option.

But I could be wrong.

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Posted (edited)

Iron Dragon Forge & Clay said: "you think?"

:'( 

I find it slightly humorous that most of that thread, if not all of it, is people defending their right to be grumpy. 

 

Edited by thematrixiam
remove quoted feature

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Iron Dragon Forge & Clay
Is there a way to tag a user in a post? I could use that as a feature to provide notification.

I am sorry if I offended you in such a way that you needed to micromanage the situation. hold on. :D. there we go. The happy face tells us we're being friends.

I edited it for you 

10:25... Curious how long it will take. I am not sure if you will get notified without the quote.

This system automatically adds my post to the last post I did, which is nice.

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This isn't FB so you can't tag people. If you wish to ignore someone and can't avoid opening their posts for some reason, block them.  

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See, the point I like of the quote feature is that it alerts the user to being quoted. without it then they are not alerted.

And since you can not tag someone, this seems like the only feature.

 

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Why in the world would you think that you offended me in any way? I am merely trying to help you get the best out of the forum and stay off the moderators radar. BTW, there is a way to tag someone with the @ sign, but it is discouraged by the admin. I'll let you find that one on your own.

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TheMatrixIAm said "if"

No worries. man. Thanks. I do appreciate the help. Please and thank you. and sorry, eh. Here's a beer.

That's about the equivalent of that grumpy people thread that I got. Bribe them, and say please and thank you and sorry and keep your head down and tail between your legs. Ya, I never quite got that whole thing. 

I work in the trades. I worked myself up from a grunt to a J-man. The thing is, the little guy starts small and then eventually replaces the grumpy knowledgeable guys. We don't all live forever. And pain stays in memory a lot better than pleasure. 

Going to school, you know what every student talks about? How their journeymen treat them. I have some great teachers and great journeyman. I still talk to my journeyman that I had from my first job. But some I won't give them the light xxxx xx xxxxx xxxxx. If someone is constantly putting me down, why would I.

I have often seen people broken by j-men as well. Crying. Not wanting to come back. We had one guy hang himself in his van. ... So, sure. I get that grumpy people want to have the right to be grumpy. But there are consequences to that.

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