Upgrading a 6 ton log splitter for hammer

[Apropensity4violence]

I have a 6 ton electric log splitter and I’m wondering if upgrading the electric motor to a higher HP and possibly if need be phage and volt will increase its power to be suitable for a power hammer. I really don’t want to use an air over its so slow. Thanks everyone.

[kerryd]

I don't know if a log splitter will move fast enough to become a hammer, but I made attachments for my 25 ton gas splitter that turned it into a functional forge press.

I may grind off the fullering & flat tools and make removable dies for it in the future. It's still in the experimental stage, but I've managed a couple pieces each of San Mai and Damascus.

[Frosty]

Welcome aboard violent new guy, glad to have you. If you'll put your general location in the header you  might be surprised how many members live within visiting distance. 

Hydraulic splitters aren't hammers, they're presses, a log splitting wedge is a die, just like a fuller or flat die. Electric motors all tend to turn one of two RPM, 1,728 or 3,456 give or take some. I don't know what doubling the RPM would do to or for the pump if it's not already running a 3,400 rpm motor. Changing voltage or phase won't speed up the motor except maybe under load and then it might just burn the motor up.

Typically forge press cycle speed only matters closing the dies, too slow and you lose more heat. Cooler stock means the press has to work harder or do less work. Most splitters I've seen don't use two stage pumps so they travel that they travel till they're stopped. 

Smaller dies will make up for slower and less power. A detent control valve will allow you to stop the press dies close together so your stock won't lay against the bottom die cooling waiting for the press die to arrive.

6 tons isn't a lot of pressure so I'd use small dies, say 5/8" rnd and about 1" x 2" flat dies. I'm just grabbing the numbers out of the air I do NOT know what to use with a 6 ton ram, maybe someone has experience with a little splitter and can make a better recommendation.

There are tricks for speeding up hydraulics but I don't think they'll do much for that size system.

Frosty The Lucky.

[Apropensity4violence]

Thank you all for the responses and I’m disappointed I misspoke or typed. I meant press not hammer. So my question is whether or not I can upgrade the electric motor to a higher HP to increase the 6tons of pressure? Hopefully you all will have some insight.

Edited April 11, 2019 by Mod30
excessive quoting

[Irondragon Forge ClayWorks]

If you haven't read this yet, I always suggest it to get the best out of the forum. READ THIS FIRST

In regards to quoting the post just prior to your answer, it is discouraged, explained in this thread. The quote feature

It's my understanding the ram & pump determines the pressure, so upping the HP of the motor won't increase it. I could be wrong though, I'm not an expert in forging presses.

[Frosty]

We  knew you were asking about a press, we pointed it out as much to prevent confusion in other folk. It's easy to make one slip and have folk across the globe think it was serious. No sweat.

I thought I addressed the motor issue. I doubt strongly that a more current will result in a faster motor. No joy there. Putting a stronger motor on should increase the tonnage though not the speed.

You want to be really careful if you put a higher HP motor on it though there may not be much safety margin in the design and blowing hoses, fitting or cylinders isn't a good thing. To get more tonnage from the ram you need to be pushing the existing motor past it's stall speed. Depending on where the splitter was made they may not design other components to take very much more pressure than it'd take to stall this motor. 

So, if you replace a (just picking a HP number here as an example) 1hp motor with a 2hp. motor it would almost double hydraulic pressure in a system designed to take maybe 10% more than would stall the 1 h. motor. 

Does that make sense? 

Frosty The Lucky.

[swedefiddle]

Good Morning,

Changing the Motor, Won't change the pressure, unless the motor RPM goes up (this makes for an unstable environment that can cause you physical damage). You need to change the Hydraulic pump, so you can increase the volume and then the pressure. When you change the pump, you will HAVE TO increase the motor HP to turn the pump when under load. The whole package MUST BE COMPATIBLE. The frame of your machine is not built for increasing the pressure. Better to buy a Press already calculated for your pressure, or, start fresh from square one.

In the beginning, you need to know the speed of the dies and the pressure needed to achieve your desired result. Then your calculator is fired up to determine what you need to get there. Then the compromises begin.........What is the power source you have available? Where can I work, so the neighbours won't be annoyed by the hydraulic noise?? And on it goes.......

Neil

 

[Frosty]

Neil: I think we have a typo or misunderstanding at work here.

Pump volume is determined by  RPM, it is not not pressure. A bit of a typo there. Log splitters run on meshing gear type pumps back when I worked with them they were called an "opaque" pump. HP makes pressure. Air movers call an opaque rotary compressors a "Roots" blower or pump. They're the same type of device.

If you think of it like electricity with two properties that make available power. Electricity is: Amp + Volts = Wattage or over all available power. Right?

In Hydraulic systems it's: Volume + Pressure = over all available power.  Volume makes speed of movement + Pressure = how hard it pushes, turns, etc. I don't know if there's a proper term for overall power in hydraulics, I never used one.

We're talking about pistons so I'll attempt to illustrate with a simple example. Assume a piston with 10 sq/in surface. 10 psi of fluid will produce 100 lbs of pressure on the ram. Yes? If there is 100 cu/in per minute of volume the ram Will move 1" per minute. The combined total of available work represented is 100 lbs. at 1" per second. Make sense? 

How fast you turn the pump determines how fast the ram will move. How much torque delivered to the pump determines how hard it can push. 

Does that make sense? I worked with and on hydraulic systems for close to 20 years on the drill crew. I haven't cracked a book on the subject since transferring out of the geology section, so I can only cite my experience: running, maintaining, repairing and designing systems on exploration drill rigs.

I would like to hear from someone with current experience with hydraulic systems, my book knowledge is out of date, I'd like to hear from you, my terminology is probably dated. 

Frosty The Lucky.