Omnislug

Kanca New 165# anvil with a soft face

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1 hour ago, Omnislug said:

I want one with a horn that has a vanishing point, imagine how small of rings you could roll on that! Mithril maybe?  getting off topic, hopefully this isn't a negative...

Until you bump into it and it pokes a hole in both your legs. Maybe practice broadening your horizon lines < for now?

Frosty The Lucky.

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Bekki Bass: 

Get shipping a new,  hard anvil and stop making excuses. 

There is no other resolution and this thread will get more and more attention the longer it takes.

 

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I tend to agree and we can all see that the anvil dents deeply so the hardness is kinda obvious on it, In the mean time I'm doing no work on my brand new anvil and this is likely to continue for a while...rather inconvenient since I don't have another.   I ordered some testing files to make it scientific and not 'opinion' , they get here tomorrow, if the postal service puts them in my box I'll do a video tomorrow. I'd like them to test one with my files before they send another so this setback doesn't happen again.   Kanka Has also been very curtious and helpful 

Edited by Mod30
excessive quoting

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Looks like this thread was the result of an anvil manufacturing defect that is being corrected. One thing that I didn't see on this thread was that new anvils will , by definition , be softer than the old world anvils. Modern Osha standards ... anvils dent now, rather than chip. I guess you could reharden and temper it to your own specs, if they don't accept a return. Just wear safety glasses :)

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Cedar Crest Forge.. My Peddinghaus which is just a few years old is harder than 99% of the old anvils I have or have used.. I own 13 or 14 anvils and the peddinghaus is by far one of the hardest.. 

I think it comes down to materials used.. There are many old anvils that are plenty hard so what I wrote might sound contrary, but many modern anvils are made from materials designed not to be hard on an Rc scale but are for sure hard..  H13, 4140, Ductile iron,  8963, most are in the 52-56 range and a few are as high as 59Rc..  Emerson, Scott, TFS, Holland are some of the newer anvil makers and their ranges seem consistent or about as hard as the metal will get for a heat treat.. 

The hardest anvil I have ever seen is an old Vanadium steel anvil..  the peddinghaus is nearly as hard..  the peddinghaus with a bad corner hit wold for sure send a chip off.. 

Ideally using an anvil properly will keep those chips from flying.. 

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Found my good.metal ruler, my kid was using it as a ramp for hot wheels cars, to check how flat the face was. In several reviews their were compliments of some sway in new anvils. Absolutely none on this one.

20190407_103909.jpg

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mine is machined flat as well, how is the hardness of yours endlessbox? You mount on a log yet?  or are you gonna keep it in the cupboard with the peanut butter?  You know I had considered that modern anvils in general will be softer " don't make things like they used to"  but then the others with this brand say they don't have the same issue so ...My files are at the post office but they don't deliver on sunday, as soon as I have my wifes phone (much better camera than mine) I'll send a video of the test. 

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Havent mounted it up yet. Hoping later this week. Ended up having to work. Until its mounted its living in the mess trailer so the neighbors dont try to carry it off. :) I have those type of neighbors 

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man that's no good! people will steal anything! Imagine what that would look like, someone trying to run off carrying an anvil...and likely only getting $5 worth as scrap...what a waste...keep er' safe!

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Right after my dad died they stole the Bass boat, trailer and all, right put the carport. 

My good stuff is kept under lock and key. Or in with the dogs

I have a whole set of letter and number metal "punches". Going tonight and putting my name and adress on it.

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[commercial content removed]

example of a seller testing his anvil for those interested, notice he isn't exactly gentle with the hammer striking the face. THIS is not abuse to any good anvil, there are many more videos like this.

[commercial content removed]

this one he's striking the anvil quite hard, I leave these as example that this is a test that is pretty common and doesn't damage the face.

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I also read of other anvils having a small drop at the square horn due to heat treat. Have also heard that it doesn't detract at all

my kanca is also dead flat along the face but surprisingly it is very slightly concave accross the face. Possibly due to different HT procedures. 

Took this picture yesterday. Just messing with the phone cameraCD813203-B943-4454-A573-1903C72992FA.thumb.jpeg.c8184bb307674939e660018fdd3be403.jpeg

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got the test files, the edges are hard (in the 50's which is on the low end of  what is advertised)   about a half inch  in towards the center of the face on both sides and there is NO denting there at all, past that and to the other half inch hardness band on the other edge it is pretty soft...I'll share a video when my wife gets home and it will list the numbers.  Center mass didn't harden, it happens with large mass parts but maybe a little more testing of them is in order so this doesn't happen...The center of the anvil is used the most, you see lots of old ones with  considerable  sag because of this.  Tested my hammer also, it's in the mid to low 40's which seems about right and not as hard as I expected from the denting.

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have to wait on the test, I have to drive out of state for family ...I'll re-post as soon as i'm back

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So, I'm going to jump in on this conversation. 

I have a 165 lb Kanca as well, and have felt the face is pretty soft.  I wasn't sure though as I'm a newbie and didn't know what to expect for anvil hardness.  Just this past week I had a chance to try out another anvil, older peter wright I believe, and missed a blow on it.  Didn't do anything to the anvil.

I've missed a blow on my 165 lb Kanca (ordered from Centaur Forge), and it put a deep ding in it.  This was with a 2 lb cross pien which is pretty soft to begin with (able to file fairly easily), and I was by no means swinging for the fences.  Attached is a picture.

Also, I did the ball bearing test when I first got the anvil, and have indents similar to the thread mentioned previously.  I dropped a 1" ball bearing from 5" from the face.  It's tough to get the pictures up close with my phone, but I think you get the point.

So, it seems as there is more than one lemon floating around. 

 

 

 

InkedBallBearing2_LI.jpg

Pitchel-Dent.jpeg

On 4/4/2019 at 10:00 PM, Omnislug said:

yeah that's a pretty small dent for a full miss, I'd call that acceptable hardness personally, thank you for sharing Rojo pedro! 

I agree on this as well.  If my anvil only dented that much with a full miss I'd consider that acceptable.

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woooops, well maybe Kanka will improve their hardening technique after this, Working at Nitrex I did induction hardening a LOT and sometimes the hardening didn't travel to the center of the part I was working, have to let it sit at the desired temperature for an anvil I'd guess several minutes to make sure the heat has traveled to all areas of the face.  I believe there is  a good bit of interest in purchasing their anvils, if their face hardness levels were consistently the numbers advertised they would probably sell better. I'd be really glad to post a good review of one that didn't dent.

sending a video in a few hours, just got back

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I'm interested to see what they do for you, because I'm certain my anvil would show similar results. 

I also agree that I think they would sell really well if the hardness was consistent.  It's really disappointing because there were good older used anvils at the same price. 

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yes I agree completely, only two manufacturers still making drop forged anvils so that's a big selling point right off the bat.....the files are expensive but not horribly, you can pick up a set for around &70 on amazon. I';ve seen two tested now and both were pretty good hardness, 56-60   those hardness levels will NOT dent, but WILL chip if struck hard enough.

ZIP  I really don't think l a ball bearing should ding the face that easily, a 5" drop is pretty small, I know they sell some with good hardness since there are a few who have chimed  in on this and spoke with a guy on Facebook who's had one for years, still perfectly flat and dent free. I've doe induction hardening MANY times at Nitrex and the hardness didn't travel to the center of the parts occasionally  so I understand this can happen, I've done it! BUT none of those parts were sent to the customer in that condition, I re did the job till it met spec. We heat treated many different parts for race cars can't be putting a cam shaft in one of those that has a hardness 10 points below spec, Mr. Race car driver might die in a fire! No Buerno

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As to old anvils being harder. My 138# PW has a divot about the size of a spoon up towards the horn, and I looked at a 170# HB that the edges of the top plate had full width mushed areas from sledgehammer hits.  Moral of this.....don't miss and always have hot steel between the hammer and anvil.

 

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from my experience, and looking at countless useed old anvils the edges always chip out before actually denting, the whole face will sag on the wrought/steel ones but I've seen very little denting

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Slug:  Are you working through centaur or directly Kanca?

I’ll likely pick up a set of files and follow suit.

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