forge welding

[Max Mulholland - Tetnum]

im not trying to make domascus or any thing just to weld
correct me if i am wrong but i beleve the process i beleve is
heat the metal
scarf, brush, fold ,flux
next heat
poke with a pointed round bar to see if it sticks in the forge
pull it out, quick burch sweep ,few light hits, flux
next heat
somoth out the weld
20 mule team for flux

i cant get the metal to stick and it is rather annoying
any help would be greatly apprecated

[geofthesmith]

sounds good to me, but dont take my word for it im just a novice, there is a blue print for it tho BP0093
and the url--http://www.iforgeiron.com/blueprints/blueprints-000-100/bp0093.php

[Rich Hale]

Tet what kind of forge are you using and what fuel?
Forge welding is not a big secret and I think you have the basics down. When you get it you will wonder why it seemed so hard at first,,,,,

[Glenn]

S0002 Making Your First Forge Weld

[Thomas Dean]

Is your metal hot enough? A good friend of mine, Bob Curtis from Alb. NM, showed me the easiest way to know if your metal is hot enough....look for 3-4 starburst sparks, pull part from fire, sling 'gruddu' from part, lay on anvil and strike. Remember, you are not trying to move metal as in forging when you strike so these will be lighter hits. Usually takes 3 heats to finish the weld. I have done this each time I make a weld with good success.

[FieryFurnace]

What's scarfing?

The (rather stupid) kidsmith,
Dave Custer

[Max Mulholland - Tetnum]

rich- fuel is coal
thanks glen
thomas- i have tried that but it dosent seem to make a diffrence
dave- scarfingthe bar is rounding 2 corners on one side of a square bar so the flux gets in all the way through the weld and is expelled during the weld

[KevinD]

What's scarfing?

The (rather stupid) kidsmith,
Dave Custer

Not stupid at all.

This book is free on the internet. Lots of good information.

Blacksmith Fundamentals

[DEERESMITH]

First, I am no expert.
I was taught to forge weld at Tillers International. After the metal is properly formed, bring the metal to a red heat. Remove from fire,wire brush,apply plenty of 20 mule team for flux,then bring up to welding temp. I have not been taught to poke the metal to identify welding temp, so I have no comment on that. I was told to observe the metal, when it becomes the same color as the fire, it is ready. When you pull the iron out of the fire, you have to get it on the anvil immediatly and get it welded. This is a very small window of opportunity. You do not stop and wire brush the metal when it is at welding temp, the only cleaning that is done at this point is maybe a quick tap on the anvil to knock off a piece of coke that is stuck to the metal.
If you are welding two separate pieces together, don't wast time perfectly aligning the pieces,you don't have that kind of time. Get one piece on top of the other and hit it. You can adjust and straighten things later. I strongly suggest practicing forge welding a loop so you only have to manage one piece of iron.
I was taught to do this in during a two day Blacksmithing I class, and I was successful in class.
It was six months or so before I aquired an anvil, and a small 18" rivet forge.
I was unable to weld at home at this point.
When I returned to Tillers International for BlacksmithingII I asked for more instruction.
I was told that rivet forges do not work well for welding because they are so shallow. You must exclude oxyogen from the metal. If you do not have at least a few inches of coal between your tuyere and your metal, you will introduce oxyogen. You must have clean coke above and below your iron.
The anvil must be close by or it will be too late to weld.
Small pieces cool even more quickly. I was told that some smiths lay a piece of railroad iron to use as an anvil right on the forge table when welding small pieces so thay can get to it before it is too late to weld.
With this new info, I went and heaped my forge extra high with coal, drug my anvil out in the yard next to the forge, and was successfully welding the first time.

[Dave Leppo]

I think forge welding is one area where experience is the best teacher (do not ignore advice, though.) I was able to quickly learn almost every other smithing technique by reading descriptions, and trying it a few times; NOT FORGE WELDING! I had to try it many times, and I am getting better at it each time. I could NOT do it when I started, and I can now usually do it when I try. This may be why everyone's techniques' have subtle variations; everyone basically has to try it for themselves, and develop personal guidelines as they go. (I have also learned that I have better luck in certain circumstances)


DO NOT GIVE UP; keep trying. I find forge welding tremendously satisfying when successful; in part because of the work I had to put in to learn.

[Jsteiner]

I actually just heard of the poke test at bladeforum. You heat a thick coat hanger flux and touch it to a piece of metal if you have welding heat it will fuse to the metal

[Max Mulholland - Tetnum]

thanks for all the help every one i will give it another try today

[ThomasPowers]

Getting the fire right is really important! If the fire is done right things will weld in the fire if you are not carefull.

The better the forge welder you are the more liberties you can take. Until then try to get all the variables lined up perfectly.

Also some steels seem to be hard to weld. You may want to try a totally different piece and see if you have better luck.

Also once you have "missed" a weld it's a lot harder to get those pieces to weld again.

I've seen Dorthy Stigler sling the gradeau off between forge and anvil; but she is a better smith than I. If the pieces are scarfed to push out the flux and crud it's not necessary though it may make for more of a spray when welding.

[simmonds]

I have found that all I really need to do is make sure the fire is CLEAN right before and that I have at least 3 inches of coke between the tuyere and the metal and a cavern of coke around the piece. As soon as the metal starts to scale I remove it from the fire, quick wire brush, apply flux then back in fire until it reaches welding temp ( metal looks kind of like melted glass and is the same color as the fire). Works (almost) every time. For the best quality welds make sure the pieces to be joined are properly prepared. A complete weld will take at least 3 heats. A good forge weld can be hacksawed in two and no seam will be visible unlike the far less superior arc weld. Just practice and it will seem natural after time. Chris.

[Max Mulholland - Tetnum]

thanks for all the help
i finaly got one to stick and it bends with the metal when vice tested the problem seamed to be the metal thank you

[Dutchmancreek]

I'm usually pretty successful forge welding. Some points I might offer.....

Having a deep fire to use up the oxygen before it gets to the steel is important. Back when I had a shallow, flat forge I couldn't weld until I built up the height of the fire with fire bricks. My forge now has a deep fire pot.

Some new hot rolled steel has a coating of some sort of mill scale that can hamper welding. I make sure to grind the surface clean before I weld.

Have a clean fire...coke and no clinkers.

Small parts cool fast. I have a small anvil right on the forge to stick them before they cool. Small or large, work fast.

It doesn't take a heavy blow to weld the parts together. A heavy hit can deform the parts or even cause them to slip.

Be confident, think of what you are going to do before you take the piece from the fire. It doesn't hurt to practice your motions (especially if you are doing a "drop the tongs" weld).

Steve