Uncle Al !!! Why????

[Meridianfrost]

So I am a little bummed out. I am finally ready to buy a press, and Uncle Al was my guy. $3,500 for a 24 ton press, and I was home free. Well the good folks (and I do mean good folks. Nice as can be and make fine machinery) have raised the price of the 24 ton press by 17%, and it now costs $4,100, and $500 to ship it in the continental United States. I sent them an email, and asked what they may have done to the press to merit such an increase, and Uncle Al told me that the price of the parts have been gradually increasing over the past couple of years, and he needed to either raise the price or quit making them. I should have pulled the trigger last month, but I wasn't financially ready to do it. My loss. I have used his press, and I love it. I love how it cycles, and the way it feels. 

SO! Now I am faced with a dilemma. I can buy a 16 ton xxxx xxxx press for $4,600 and free shipping, or I can buy an Uncle Al's press, and pay $4,600. 

I have read through a couple years of posts, but I haven't seen any that put a comprehensive list of people they knew that were out there manufacturing presses.

Uncle Al's 24 ton now $4,100 + $500 to ship. $4,600 total As far as I know still the least expensive in the mix for the tonnage.

xxxxx xxxx xxxx 16 ton - $4,600 with free shipping.

xxxx xxxx 50 ton - $8,000 + 500 shipping

xxxxxxx 25 ton - $7,000 +300 shipping

And of course, the elusive Craine Press, who have not gotten back to me about cost.

 

I don't trust my welding skills enough to build one myself. I don't have the jigs set up to do it properly, and if I am going to invest $1.5k into a hammer, I don't want to wind up with a heap of scrap metal when I finish. Everyone wants the tools they use for the trade to be cheaper. Part of taking your operation to the next level is investing in good tools that will enable you to do the job you want to do. I am a bladesmith, and I will use the press primarily for forging damascus, or pattern-welded steel. This question has been posed a few times with varying results, but does anyone know of a private individual who is making these at a better cost. I know that there are some people here that are looking for a $1,000 press. I'm not that guy. I know how much the parts and steel cost for a 20 - 25 ton press, and I am looking in the $3,000 to $3,500 range. If anyone is building presses in that range, I would love it if you could hit me up. Or, if I am leaving out a manufacturer that you know of, I would greatly appreciate the reference. Thanks everyone for your effort

[Frosty]

Bummer. Prices of everything are going up all the time. I haven't seen anything on your list that's a better deal. When was the last time you raised the price of your work? 

If you aren't confident in your welding skills you have your answer. You probably don't want to pay a licensed and bonded welding shop to do it for you either. 

Frosty The Lucky.

[ThomasPowers]

Could be worse; my wife finally agreed for us to buy a yurt to go camping in and so we called up some friends who did excellent work and were US#1000 cheaper than the next decent ones---and they had gone out of the business the week before!

[Meridianfrost]

Yes yes, very true. I haven’t raised the price of my work, but that is apples and oranges right there. A lot more difficulty involved in having a press shipped, hydraulics, etc. it’s easier for me because i don’t really have to keep up with increasing prices on that scale. I don’t necessarily think that I have my answer though, especially if someone who is out there makes these cheaper on a smaller scale reads this message  I am maximizing every avenue I have, since I’m not independently wealthy. Thanks though, frosty. 

And yeah, Thomas, I guess it could be worse. And I’m sorry about your yurt! If I knew anyone who built them I would definitely send them your way. 

[Frosty]

No, not apples and oranges at all. Costs to the equipment maker go up and he has to maintain his margin or stop making. You need: equipment, materials, consumables, utilities, rent, etc. and they're going up if you can't make your margin you have to stop.

In either case some expenses are permanent, others are product related. Same same.

If you're choking on $600. You maybe want to be asking yourself if you actually need a press or just want one. I think you're nuts or maybe you're trying to punish Uncle Al by even considering a press that's 2/3 the power for exactly the same money to your door.

What's YOUR difficulty shipping the press, aren't you paying someone else to do that? One is 4,100+ 500 shipping the other is 4,600 and Free shipping? What you're quibbling about, it's exactly the same money. Even . . . sillier I won't use the word I'm actually thinking fits, you're attracted to one that's 2/3 the power for the same price to the door. 

Consider this, you cost yourself $500 by dancing around the buy. Are you going to keep dancing till prices go up farther? 

Frosty The Lucky.

[ThomasPowers]

Thanks but we're past that stage; my wife at 72 now considers "roughing it" when we put a bed mattress in the back of her van and I build a conduit&tarp structure to surround the van.  Back in her 60's we once had a big family Thanksgiving in Albuquerque. And we camped in a tent out back of one of our kid's houses. COLD! but there were a large number of grandkids below the age of 6 and it was a lot quieter and private out in the Sibley tent.

[Meridianfrost]

1 hour ago, Frosty said:

Costs to the equipment maker go up and he has to maintain his margin or stop making.

Well, as usual frosty, I just disagree. Prices for knives of people who aren’t Fisk don’t enjoy the kind of markup that comes with outfitting one’s shop. So yeah. Apples and oranges. You may have the money to simply pay any price for any machine, but most of us lesser mortals have to almost break our necks to get it done. And yeah. I NEED a press for what I WANT to do. I’m doing the normal human thing, and asking in a place where someone who makes presses is likely to hang around. I’m not punishing anyone, and if you had read my post, you’d actually see that I adore uncle al, and the quality and utility of his press. Since I am on a limited budged, that additional $600 needs to be spent somewhere else. And no, I’ll probably buy uncle als press if I don’t find someone who can make one for me cheaper. Not to mention that the two presses you mentioned in your post have entirely different designs, and utility. This post is about seeing if someone is out there that can do it cheaper, because money is tight. I don’t think that is an unreasonable thing, and I don’t think it’s that difficult to understand. 

[jeremy k]

3 hours ago, Meridianfrost said:

 You may have the money to simply pay any price for any machine

I don't think Frosty was in any way implying that at all - just stating a fact that the makers sometimes have no choice but to raise prices to cover their costs.

Meridianfrost - it really is like Frosty said "do you need one or just want one" - that is a business decision only you can make. If you are even remotely thinking you can improve your business with a press - then by all means you should step up and do it. Your right - not everyone has the cash on hand to invest but again that is a business decision that has to be made and only you can determine if it will fit your needs. Granted everyone would like a superb low price deal, but sometimes cheapest is not always best, as if you were to purchase a press right now - how fast could you make up the difference being you have the press and can do more work and or different work than before? - Again your choice, as your the only one who knows all your details of your clientele/wants or needs.

I got into a press not even for forge welding, and I've used it for more than you can imagine just because it was sitting there waiting to get used. Good Luck with your decision - if at least - keep doing the forge welding by hand (as so many do without a press) and keep saving up for a quality press of your choice.

[Meridianfrost]

9 hours ago, jeremy k said:

I don't think Frosty was in any way implying that at all -

 

Yeah, I get that. But it just isn’t the case with me, and a lot of other bladesmiths/blacksmiths I know. I work as a bladesmith part-time, and have a full time day job. If one is selling their knives in a market that is already saturated with makers, you’re going to need at least a few pieces of specialized machinery to keep up. Even if you only make a couple of knives a month, they still need to be quality knives, with creative patterns. Forge welding by hand isn’t fun, and it takes days at the anvil to produce one billet of 200 or more layers. And that is just random pattern. Then you have to worry about decarburizing your steel because of having to put as many heats as you need to make a quality billet. A press accomplished this in hours, so more time can be spent with the detail work that is necessary for the kind of quality you want to put out there. 

Does it sometimes bum me out that I need a tempering oven, bandsaw, Forge press, power hammer, variable speed grinder, surface grinder, drill press,  mill, chop saw, mig welder,  and acetylene torch to do it right? Yeah.  It does  I just need to decide what is critical to the operation, and chip away at it as time passes. At the rate I am going, I’ll have a full bladesmith shop ready to go in about 10 years. That is of course, unless I can start selling knives at $1,000 a piece! Which I would be more than happy to do. 

My point is that it IS apples and oranges. I’m not a full time bladesmith, and I don’t have the kind of capital to work these expenditures into the price of my product like they do. The big makers who sell their product for thousands of dollars absolutely incur cost as time marches on, and riverside machine is no exception. They have to make a profit from what they are doing, because people should be paid for the things they create. We aren’t all in this because of some altruistic drive or obligation to the smithing community. I don’t usually give my knives away, and I am certainly aware of the labor and skill it takes to make them. So I understand. It’s a bummer, but I understand. This post is about seeing if there were any makers that I was missing where I could find a cheaper press.  Only that.  Thanks for the feedback. 

[pnut]

Meridianfrost, I sympathize with your situation. It's disappointing and discouraging to diligently save your money and get to the finish line only to find out that the finish line has been moved. Happened to me with photography equipment.  The only suggestion I have is to keep squirreling away your cash to reach the new goal while keeping your eyes peeled for a used press. You could try industrial surplus. 

   Sorry I wish I could offer more help. Just wanted to let you know your not alone in your situation it's happened to everyone involved in hobbies or vocations that require high dollar equipment. I wish you the best of luck and post when you decide what you want to do. I would like to know the outcome.  Don't let it get to you.

   Pnut (Mike) 

[Peppie]

Even if you were to pay a welder , you could build your own for less than 4600.

[Latticino]

One additional avenue to consider (aside from a rolling mill, which may do much of what you would like for a press) is looking for a workshop where groups of folks are getting together to construct presses for participants (similar to a Clay Spenser style tire hammer workshop).  There are usually a couple of good welders in such a group, and you may end up being responsible for just drilling all the holes, beveling edges, or hooking up piping and wiring.  I'm not currently aware of any groups with firm plans for such a workshop, but the New England Bladesmiths have flirted with holding one for a couple of years as far as I know, so perhaps they have moved further along.  They aren't too far from you in Central NY, so might be worth looking into.

Frosty, as I'm sure you are aware, a fast 16 ton press can often be more effective for forging than a slow 25 ton press.  I've been impressed with what I've seen of the Coal Iron 16+ ton press, though that one is even more expensive.

[Anachronist58]

7 hours ago, Meridianfrost said:

Yeah, I get that. But it just isn’t the case with me,

Yep, I am reaching retirement age, with no pension. Having to invest beyond my means - fly press, OBI press, tool and cutter grinder &.........  It can be stressful to make those choices.

I expect many independent builders are facing the same challenges. Best of good fortune to you,

Robert Taylor

[Meridianfrost]

Thanks to everyone for their encouragement. I really appreciate it. Yeah, for now I am going to just keep my eyes peeled for a good used press, and just keep on saving my money so I can afford uncle Al's. Whichever comes first. Looking for a local group that is toying with doing a workshop is a great suggestion, or maybe I could get the ball rolling here with my local abana group. We shall see what the future holds. Thanks again everyone.

-josh

[bubba682]

Peppie is right and where you live it should be no problem findin a certified welder to build it just keep your plan simple prep all the parts  for the guy if ya can.Go down to your local welding supply shop chances are they can give ya the name of a certified welder that does small projects on the weekends for cash .What i did for the hydraulics is go to the supply shop told them what i wanted which is basically the workin parts of a wood splitter he done up a diagram to hook up everything up then i got a 5hp motor and had a friend wire it up.I think i had 12 hrs of welding time in mine at most 20 theres a referance for ya to ask a price on, i built a simple h frame nuthen fancy.You might save some money by askin around it defenitly won't hurt anyway good luck hopefully this helps ya...