Jump to content
I Forge Iron

Recommended Posts

I need some help answering a question. I have an anvil that I would like to begin working on in order to restore it for functionality. So there is no confusion, let's start with the basics.

  • The anvil is a 300 lb Hay Budden.
  • The extent of the damage is on the face. Yes, I can work around it only with smaller stock. It will be repaired and the edges beveled to my preference.
  • For this task, I will be using a MIllermatic 200. I know that it is small, but it is all that I have. I have access to larger welders if need be. 
  • I have not completely made up my mind on filler material. Between MG710 and Stoody, however I am leaning more towards the 710 filler. 
  • I have researched all methods and I am familiar with Gunter's. If I use the MG 710, I will follow vendor (Messer) specifications for welding which basically is the same concept as Gunter's. Clean/grind, preheat, weld, and finish. 

Alright, I understand that I am building up a surface but typically what would the amps be say if you were welding? Stick vs TIG? I would like to TIG it, a lot cleaner, but the preheat is 750F compared to 390F stick. It does give the amps for stick, 45 to 90F (3/32" rod) and 80 to 210F (1/8"). I was looking for someone that had some experience with this filler and how it reacts. 

Also anyone that has TIG to anvil experience, speak up. I would like to know your process, heat control, amps, and electrode dia.

Thanks

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Welcome to ifi, have you been blacksmithing long? Personally I wouldn't do anything to it until I've used it for about a year. The only part of an anvil that gets used is directly under the hammer. That's about three or four inches. Many anvils have been ruined by trying to repair them. I would think long and hard before doing anything to it. You may make a completely usable anvil much less functional. They have hardened and tempered faces that can be ruined if heated. Someone with more experience will surely be along soon to give you their views. I suggest leaving it be for now.

        Pnut (Mike)   

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Looks like this chilly sat morn is gonna warm up !---best o luck-----please show before  and after photos !!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Pnut: Thank you for the welcome. I have not been technically “blacksmithing” for a while. I am getting into it. However, I have been repairing farm equipment ever since I can remember by some means that would require either forging or fabricating. I have been welding and fabricating for well over 10 years, used to work in the industry. I appreciate your concern on the well being of the anvil but it’s gonna happen. I have confidence in myself. 

Yt12: I will post pictures as well as the process. 

Irondragon Forge and Clay: Thank you for the welcome as well. I have done extensive research on the topic. I thought this would be the most appropriate place to resolve my questions. Did I not post in the correct location?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You posted in the correct location. If you edit your profile to show your location, who knows there may be members close enough to you to give a hand in your endeavor. We have members from over 150 countries and some have decades of experience repairing anvils. Myself, I wouldn't attempt it without help.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Bowen, you are very welcome. There's many more people on here that would know more about it than me I just wanted to point out that depending on how hot the face gets it could soften it. Be on the lookout for njanvilman. I believe he is involved in the anvil industry in some capacity. I'm not sure how exactly but he is very knowledgeable on the subject.

   Perhaps you could send him a PM. Anyways welcome to ifi and the art and craft of blacksmithing.

 Best of luck and post pics,

         Pnut (Mike) 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Bowen: If you preheat that anvil to 750 f. you'll draw the temper past black and it WILL require proper heat treatment to regain it's hardness or it'll be annealed and dead soft. Having it done professionally will probably cost as much as a new anvil of like size.

Preheating to 390 f. isn't as bad but it's not going to be as hard as it should be.

You may be a trained certified welder but it doesn't mean you know how to weld high carbon steel massing as much as an anvil. It doesn't work the way you think it does. Heck, just running beads on the face can delaminate it from the wrought body. 

You can't run beads on an anvil face without serious risk of ruining it.

I sure hope you aren't running this kind of risk for cosmetic reasons. You won't be alone if you do and we won't hate or shun you. Be sad for you but we'll still be here if we can help. Think about it, you'll hear the same thing from folks who've been at this for a while and like me have welded on anvil faces unnecessarily. I welded and dressed the edges on an anvil because the kid who owned it had a buzz box and WAS going to "repair" his anvil no matter what. Preheating to 300-350 F. is plenty to prevent thermal shock fracturing in the HAZ.

Frosty The Lucky.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Punt: I appreciate the response, I understand the consciences of heating the block. That is interesting to find someone still knowledgeable and in the anvil making industry. I will be in the lookout for him and I wish send a pm to him.  

 

Chelonian: I will soon

 

Frosty: that’s what I was thinking and I didn’t want to take it up that high without  a finish.  I also didn’t want to get above 400f. Steel is steel. However, it is old and I do not want to jeopardize the intirgity of the anvil. It needs to be fixed. I would not be saying this if it was anything less of 1/4” deep 1/2” long chips throughout, not to mention it’s random. 1/8” spacing in some regions. . I could work around it, switching sides but fixing the one side would be best. It’s the later year HB (solid top). I understand that there is a compromise to issue. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Bowen, there's another user here I think his username is Hollandanvil who is also still manufacturing anvils. Cast steel I believe. He has an outside website just Google it and you can see their products. I might try getting in contact on this forum also if I were you. There's a wealth of info here and countless years of combined experience that they are more than happy to share.

 Have a productive day. I'm about to head off to work myself.

     Pnut (Mike)         

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

google anvil repair Rod Gunther it is the right way to fix an anvil ! I have repaired  over 100  this way with No problems or come backs !

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No steel is not steel: steel is hundreds if not thousands of alloys each with different working requirements; including welding requirements!

I actually have some of the old steel "library" from a welding institute. They moved to a new campus and I had permission to help clean out all the stuff abandoned in place.  I mainly snarfed up the HC steels from their library but who could turn down a chunk of 1234 steel? (all was stamped with alloy as they needed samples to test new/improved processes against as STEEL IS NOT STEEL!

++ on the Gunter method  

 Bowen if you are down my way I can introduce you to a welding instructor  who is also a highly skilled smith and did the repair on my 400# Trenton anvil---Gunther method!  I just bought a most abused little anvil that I'm going to talk with him about repairing...Might be a Badger.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Please post pictures of your anvil in present condition so that we can have a look at it before you start trying to "fix" it.  Here are pictures of anvils I use all the time that are less than perfect but perfectly serviceable just as they are.  Repairing these anvils would be a huge mistake.

DSCN3864.thumb.JPG.97dd34b94c170f9e587dcfc40f5a6c10.JPG

Above is my main anvil and the face is in what I would call very good shape.  The edges are a bit beat up, but a very good and serviceable anvil

Below is a Fisher anvil.  Notice the torch mark on the face and other bits of face damage.  It works just fine and some of the chisel marks and pits will polish out under heavy use.

IMG_0131.thumb.JPG.1758f9394fc4f73d7c2ac21ad0ee61fd.JPGFisher-1.thumb.jpg.9172e493489fa3f894d65b464abbabae.jpg

I find I can work around all the damage on these anvils without issues.  There's a lot of chisel marks on the horn that I've found do transfer to my work so I may have to redress the horn with a little grinding and polishing.  This conclusion was only reached after forging on it for a while.  I was making a shoe horn on it the other day and had a heck of a time keeping it clean on that horn.

Please post photos of your anvil so we can see the damage and assess.  It may be really bad and we may agree with you or it may be in serviceable condition as is.  As others have said before me, you could completely ruin the anvil trying to "fix" it.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...