timgunn1962 Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 With the caveat that I'm also not a caster, it looks to me like you want to flux liberally to prevent Oxidation and open up the choke fully. If it's a Devil Forge burner, mine seemed to be slightly rich of stoichiometric when fully open: it seemed like someone in Lithuania had put in the effort to do it right. Turn down the pressure because it'll get a lot hotter with the choke fully open. I'd try 5 PSI and adjust from there to suit your setup. If you go too low, you'll get the flame burning back up the burner tube once things warm up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moss Posted February 26, 2019 Author Share Posted February 26, 2019 Awesome thanks for the tips, I will adjust the flow and choke. Hopefully I can get there. Ill take a pic of it in the foundry and post it when i get another day off. Again, thanks for the advice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 Did you put a "heal" at the bottom of the charge? Like a penny or two? Melting metals aren't always a straight forward matter of reaching temperature. You need a little something to get the process started--before the charge starts to oxidize; once that happens melting temperature will go way up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moss Posted April 7, 2019 Author Share Posted April 7, 2019 Ok so first off i apologize for being so delayed, ohio weather is up and down and being a night shift nurse finding time is definitely a crunch. So here goes i dialed the psi down to 5 instead of 10, which improved my run time and delayed my propane freeze. Although since i got a new regulator i really cannot say for sure if it improved the flame adjustment. Now onto the copper melting itself. I packed the crucible decently tight of copper, place 4 charcoal cubes on top and fired away. I did toss 3 pennys into the bottom to facilitate the process. Still i have not been able to achieve liquid copper to pour. I placed the flame at the base of the crucible (as blue as i can get) to concentrate the flame. I adjust the choke completely closed then slowly open it but i just cannot achieve a solid blue flame jetting onto the crucible.( tried multiple time at different setting on propane tank psi) With that said as i close the lid and still have dragons breath. For those of you who have limited data i tried to make the pictures as simple as possible... if you ever in north ridgeville ohio. I owe you a beer... or Coke Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moss Posted April 7, 2019 Author Share Posted April 7, 2019 The copper chunk on top is 1st attempt when i asked questions the first time. Bottom chunk is what i did with these adjustments and all the great tips you all gave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIGGUNDOCTOR Posted April 7, 2019 Share Posted April 7, 2019 Copper wire scrap is not recommended for casting as it has too much surface that oxidizes. Check out alloy avenue forums. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted April 7, 2019 Share Posted April 7, 2019 The burner looks to be burning within reasonable range though a little closer tuning might help some. I don't know so I don't have any suggestions for tweaks there. I think you have it turned up too high though, I've seen less dragon's breath melting 20 lb crucibles of iron and 100 lb bronze melts. Pics and videos of the iron melts and seen the bronze melts in person. What do you have in the crucible for seed? You need something in the pot to melt first so the cable has something to be immersed in or it'll just oxidize or form carbon & hydrogen, compounds in direct contact with the propane flame. Propane makes a VERY chemically active flame that tends to do B-A-D things to what it contacts. I've melted cable in campfires with an air blast from a mattress inflator blower but I covered the pot. Without a cover I got mostly slag and wasted a bunch of time slagging scrap pipe. Once I had a seed of melt a handful of borax almost eliminated the slag a crunched up beer bottle worked almost as well. Trying to melt cable was a stinky exercise but I got moderate results with a pot of molten copper to slip it into in short lengths. Melting cable is a stinky waste of time unless you're sitting around a camp fire with guys who think you can't have fun if you don't start the evening with a half rack of beer. I had to find something else to occupy my time for nearly 20 years as a field guy, I'm an excellent camp cook and spent countless evenings using the camp fire as a forge and whatever was around to make stuff out of. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moss Posted April 7, 2019 Author Share Posted April 7, 2019 I guess i did not realize i needed more seed then a few pennies to get it going. That being said what would be the answer to that? I tried borax before ( pic of the 2 metal chunks it was used on top one, not bottom)and the results were unclear, maybe i did not use enough. Also i do have pieces of copper instead of wire, but since i was unable to liquify any of the copper i just have not tried that yet ( also i have a lot more wire). Which then leads me to the last question, once the crucible has liquid copper in it the wire should take easily to liquid form after adding it too the mix with little effort. So instead of starting off with wire add it in later.. also my neighbor keeps telling me that propane is unable to get copper to the melting point and this is a waste... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted April 7, 2019 Share Posted April 7, 2019 I feel that your neighbor is clueless. Propane gets plenty hot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moss Posted April 8, 2019 Author Share Posted April 8, 2019 Thank you Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted April 8, 2019 Share Posted April 8, 2019 I don't think laundry borax in the scrap will work, it boils off it's moisture content and that could cause real problems, in school we floated it on the surface of a melt and only stirred it just before pouring. The instructor would put a scoop in the crucible before lighting the melter, covering the seed. That was commercial flux cir. 1966 or so and pink but we used the same stuff to dip bare brazing rod. I've been using Peterson's #1 blue, flux from the welding supply for forge welding flux but forge welds isn't mentioned on the can at all. I chanced a can because of the ingredient list, borax, boric acid and something to make it blue. I didn't get the stuff with iron oxide in it. The stuff is used to gas weld, braze, hard solder, darned near everything. A couple pennies is a teaser, flatten a couple pieces of copper pipe that will lay across the bottom of the crucible so you can get maybe 1/4" or better seed. Once you have melt in the pot copper cable will melt quickly enough but not more quickly than an equal weight of solid copper, it's chilling the melt as fast as being heated. Yes? Does your crucible sit on a plinth so the flame can circulate under it? Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moss Posted April 8, 2019 Author Share Posted April 8, 2019 Second picture you can see part of the quarter. Both from same angle. Minimal distance. Doe the flame circulate underneath it, close to but maybe not completely.? (Pictures are reversed for some reason) If you read the website from castmasters everyone who has used this product after me has had no problem melting copper down. Yet, I cannot achieve the same results which leads me to believe these people have not tried copper... or maybe what im using needs better improvement. Again, novice here and really interested in the hobby as well as teaching my 4 year old a life long skill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted April 8, 2019 Share Posted April 8, 2019 Funny I have accidentally melted steel in my NA propane forge and steel melts about 600 degF above cop;per! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moss Posted April 8, 2019 Author Share Posted April 8, 2019 Thats what i am completely baffled about how is it so possible yet just out of reach!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John in Oly, WA Posted April 8, 2019 Share Posted April 8, 2019 If that were my set up, I'd get the next size smaller crucible (need more room for the flame to circulate around the crucible), a smaller diameter, but taller plinth (about 1"-1 & 1/2" tall) and aim the burner flame to go around the crucible, not pointed at the crucible. But first I'd take the burner out and clamp it in a vise, light it and make adjustments til I had the beautiful blue flame cone Mikey likes so much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George N. M. Posted April 8, 2019 Share Posted April 8, 2019 I'll just mention this in case someone isn't aware of it but all US pennies minted since 1982 (with the exception of some collector strikes) are zinc with a thin copper plating (97.5% Zn, 2.5% Cu by weight). If you are going to use a coupe of pennies to get a copper melt started you'll have to go through you penny jar or change drawer to find a couple that are more than 37 years old. BTW, even prior to 1982 pennies had 5% zinc in them but that probably would not make any difference for this usage. "By hammer and hand all arts do stand." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
basher Posted April 10, 2019 Share Posted April 10, 2019 so its definatly possible to melt copper with propane. I have cast a copper Tueiron plate for my smelting furnace with a blown burner (7 or 8 lb of scrap sheet copper)...one thing that may effect a ventury burner is the small gap between the crucible and firnace wall. this will creat a lot of back pressure. I would scale everything down smaller crucible less copper . pop a bit of charcoal in the crucible to help reduce the copper oxide if you get molten copper then add some more charcoal as oxidisation is a problem with copper melting. one thing to keep in mind is that the temp needed to actually get metals liquid is quite a bit above thier theoretical melting temp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Namaha01 Posted April 13, 2020 Share Posted April 13, 2020 Check your port on the burner. Mine was plugged with some rust/metal shavings. I used flash light and could see it was blocked. I used a small drill bit and compressed air to clear it out. If there's blockage you can adjust the regulator all you want and the gauge will move, but the correct amount of propane wont ever make it to the burner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eseemann Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 I had one of the electric units from Cast Masters and something was not right in the thermostat since it is rated to 2000 and went over 2400. I contacted them via Amazon and they are sending me the stainless steel version of what you have. Did you coat the Kaowool with anything? I am looking at all that uncoated wool and it makes me nervous. On 4/8/2019 at 11:11 AM, John in Oly, WA said: I'd get the next size smaller crucible John, I guess I need to take the same advice since I want to coat the Kaowool in the foundry they are sending me but all I have to work with on hand is kast-o-lite 26 li plus or Mizzou Castable Plus. Looking at how snug the crucible is stilling I am betting I don't have space for even a 1/2 inch coating. How much room would you say you need for air and gas movement around the crucible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eseemann Posted June 18, 2020 Share Posted June 18, 2020 On 4/7/2019 at 8:32 PM, Frosty said: borax, boric acid and something to make it blue. I wish the rest of my world was as straightforward as Frosty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted June 18, 2020 Share Posted June 18, 2020 Sorry, was a terse description too out of character of me? Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eseemann Posted June 19, 2020 Share Posted June 19, 2020 I work as a DoD Contractor in cybersecurity everyone + dog is always trying to show just how smart and indispensable they are. I love when someone can simply say "something to make it blue" without feeling the need to go in to detail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted June 19, 2020 Share Posted June 19, 2020 Guess I don't have to tell you how much modern operating systems gnash my teeth then. Every (up?)date makes the software more complicated, less intuitive and less useful. It takes my email program a couple minutes sending mined data then spends maybe a minute receiving data before it downloads an email. I spent 30 years working for the state geology section and have more experience than I can stomach with folk trying to out IQ each other. Two things used to get their heads spinning, a simple terse answer or saying, "I don't know." I have to break off or memories will have me ranting. I so loved it when I transferred out of HQ Geology for road maintenance and I could just operate the machinery. I like machinery that just does what you tell it. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eseemann Posted June 20, 2020 Share Posted June 20, 2020 Frosty, it all makes sense when you remember that computer hate us (people) that is the only answer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted June 20, 2020 Share Posted June 20, 2020 You mean it isn't people with no real world experience trying to come up with nifty "features" to justify their paychecks so their Moms don't kick them out of the attic and make them get their own place and real jobs? So instead of AI it should be AA Artificial Anger? Yeah, that does make more sense. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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