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Hey Mikey,

I had a go at trying the first part of the process, where he said 60gs of silicate and 100ml of water.  When I tried it, the amount of water seems way too small to get the crystals to melt.  I then went back to the vid and had a look at the way he was doing it and he used around 150 to 200 ml of water, so I have put in another 100 ml.  Overnight there is still a fair amount of crystals remaining, so will keep the post going to see what happens.

 

Regards to All

 

Garry

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Good link, thank you Garry.  I didn't comment earlier but a home brew water glass and how to tweak it to a more useful recipe is a big plus for me. In Alaska sodium silicate is listed as a hazmat and permitting, precautions and insurance make it prohibitive for anyone to carry. I could buy a bottle of decent single malt scotch for what a pint of "water glass" would cost to order. 

Thanks again. 

Frosty The Lucky.

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G'Day Buddy,

 

I don't have a clue what you are talking about with the Mono thingo and tertiary bit, but I will believe you.   If the crystals haven't melted by sunday down under, I will have to leave them for 4 days, so don't worry, I will not have forgotten to let you know.

 

Garry

Hey Frosty,

 

Some strange laws for you guys, when it is Kitty Litter down here.  And you can pick it up at the local corner store, I didn't see any large print on the packet that said it was hazardous to your health, but, anything to do with chemicals, you would treat with respect at any rate.  Crazy bloody world we live in these days.

Take Care

 

Garry

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From “monos” = “one” and “lithos” = “stone”. Tertiary is what comes after primary and secondary, and before quaternary. 

22 minutes ago, Frosty said:

I could buy a bottle of decent single malt scotch for what a pint of "water glass" would cost to order. 

Tastier, too. 

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JHCC,

 

Never took Latin at school, I had enough trouble with English and French (fails French) and went there in 84 ordered Stake Tartare, thinking it was Steak with a sauce??? when they plonked down a big mince pattie with an egg in half a shell, winking at me, I near chundered.   LOL, should have paid attention in school.

 

Ah, OK Frost,

Well when I do get to use this stuff, I was playing with the idea of giving the cylinder wall a coat and putting the wool in and then coating the wool.  What do you think?  Also, is 1"(I understand inches and feet Old School) sufficient thickness for the wool?

 

Garry

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Laws are weird here but not THAT weird. Kitty litter doesn't even require you own a cat. Sodium silicate is a different thing I think politicians listening to the low sodium diet craze and got confused.

Before Mike got us convinced colloidal silica made a better rigidizer than sodium silicate I think most folk have stopped even looking for it. But what you propose as a forge liner would work well though current consensus is two layers of 1" ceramic wool refractory rigidized with a hard inner inner of castable refractory as the flame face and armor against mechanical erosion. Followed with a kiln wash as a final IR radiant layer and final bit of armor.

Cut the blanket a little large to fit the circumference and compress it to fit that way it'll support itself. Paint the inside of the shell with water glass stuff first and it should glue the blanket on. Rigidize the wool install the second layer and rigidize it.

You know you can cause sodium silicate to set up very quickly with CO2 yes? Seriously put a dish of soda pop in the forge and cover it with plastic it'll be hard in half an hour. Casters who make molds with sodium silicate bonded sand use CO2 injection to harden the molds.

Frosty The Lucky.

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1 hour ago, Frosty said:

Laws are weird here but not THAT weird. Kitty litter doesn't even require you own a cat. Sodium silicate is a different thing I think politicians listening to the low sodium diet craze and got confused.

Before Mike got us convinced colloidal silica made a better rigidizer than sodium silicate I think most folk have stopped even looking for it. But what you propose as a forge liner would work well though current consensus is two layers of 1" ceramic wool refractory rigidized with a hard inner inner of castable refractory as the flame face and armor against mechanical erosion. Followed with a kiln wash as a final IR radiant layer and final bit of armor.

Cut the blanket a little large to fit the circumference and compress it to fit that way it'll support itself. Paint the inside of the shell with water glass stuff first and it should glue the blanket on. Rigidize the wool install the second layer and rigidize it.

You know you can cause sodium silicate to set up very quickly with CO2 yes? Seriously put a dish of soda pop in the forge and cover it with plastic it'll be hard in half an hour. Casters who make molds with sodium silicate bonded sand use CO2 injection to harden the molds.

Frosty The Lucky.

 

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Hi frosty,

I haven't reduced the length of the cylinder as yet, and as I said in a previous post, I will bring it back to 10 - 12 inches.  I have the wool fitted into the cylinder at the moment (only as a look see what I have left as far a space goes), if I put in another layer that will take the diameter from 12 to 8 inches and the same with the depth if I slice it of at 12 inches in length, so I would finish up with 402 Cub Inches.  Just a rough measurement, the cylinder is almost the same size as an LPG Gas Bottle (9 Kg 19.8 lbs) as far as diameter goes.  Would that be sufficient to play around with, until I gain some skills in beating up hot metal?

Using the water glass inside, then between two layers of wool and over the outer surface of the last layer, then comes the (brain fart) can't think of the names of the slurry/mud coat.  Would it be worth coating over the finished job a couple of times with water glass as an aid to reduce likely damage and also as an extra insulation?

Thanks heaps for being patient with this Old Goat.

Best Regards and Health to all.

Garry

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To the OP a 18 inch forge is excessive relative to the work most people do. With a little creativity you could make a 14 inch piece with a 7 inch deep forge. Although you don't necessarily need to hear the entire cylinder it should be a length reachable by tongs and comfortably. You don't wanna reach a foot in lol. Once you add a hard refractory your diameter could go down half an inch. My all use forge has a five inch diameter and works for all my knifesmithing needs. 

To all the guys referencing sodium silicate I would advise against it. I used it in my forge and at high temps it melts and eventually the refractory sags due to how soft it becomes at heat. Colloidal or fumed silica is a better higher temp glue or rigidizer to use in your forge. It's a better investment. I use a hard firebrick floor to add thermal mass to the forge because the only issue with kaowool is in fact is insulating property. It's so good it cannot hold heat. Some thermal mass translates to increased heat time but less temp drop between heats in the forge. Happy forging gentlemen.

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Hi Nate,

Thank's very much for your input on both the size and the silicate.  I have started to soak the cat litter, so I might as well keep going with it and try my hand at making it.  First hurdle is, it has now been soaking in the water for two days and has not reduced in quantity of crystals that much.  If I was to do it again, I think I would pulverise the crystals into powder prior to soaking, and yes it has to be strained to take out the lumps.   Colloidal or Fumed Silica?  Are they a common sort of mineral that is readily available or is it a chemist/ specialist purchase?  I realise that your Country and have varying restraints on different chemical etc, so I don't know much about the stuff to try it as well.  I am not pig headed enough to say up yours and continue on blindly (like searching for mines using a blindfold and your foot), and as you can see by the ridiculous questions that I ask, I am a master of everything, but  a klux at most things, let's just say a highly intelligent idiot, but on the other hand, you have to crawl before you walk and all the input into these questions is teaching me to sit up before I crawl.

Than's heaps to all that have offered suggestions, you can rest assured that I will be looking at all the suggestions along the way.

 

Best Regards and Health (from Down Under)

Garry

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Fumed silica is common; you can buy it dirt cheap on eBay or Amazon.com; drop it into water and it becomes colloidal silica in seconds. Add a few drops of food coloring from the grocery store, and you have silica based rigidizer. I'm sorry to disappoint all the worry warts in the audience, but not everything in life becomes a hassle :)

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I've been looking for the easy way my whole life. Anything can become a hassle, I get worn out just sitting here typing! :(

Easy is good, we've earned it . . . the hard way. 

Frosty The Lucky.

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Hi Frosty,

That statement sounds a bit like Irish Logic, and not being derogatory. to the Irish either as they have wonderful singers and fine Smiths that have bee around for eons, plus the Irish dancers are rather special.

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