Garry Muir

Burners to capacity

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Hi and Hello from Aussie Land,

I am the New Kid on the Block and am starting to assemble my forge.

I did the measurements and it is 9" diameter (after adding Kaowool) and 18'deep.

Went the the math site and input the figures and it came back with 1145 cubic inches.

Have I done the right or wrong math? seems a lot of air to me, any help would be greatly appreciated. 

Looks like I have messed up this post as well.

Have a great Day Guys.

 

Garry

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18" is a pretty big sized forge, 18' is a bit excessively excessive....  What are you making that you need to have that much hot at once?  Generally you don't want to heat more than you can work before it cools off on you so 18" seems to indicate you are using powerhammers, rolling mills, etc---or make some pretty good sized spirals in one go.

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Welcome from the other side of the world.

That's a big forge, but based on the measurements given, your math is correct.

My forge is also 18", but a rectangular box that's a third that volume (4" x 6" interior, 3" x 5" opening at each end that can be closed off by insulating firebrick.  It's bigger than I need and excessively well insulated.  If I were building it again, I'd probably cut it back to 14".

Maybe add another inch of Kaowool.  You'll shrink your volume considerably.  Volume is used as an estimate for BTU needs, but it's really a function of surface area, insulation, and the size of your openings at the end.

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15 hours ago, Garry Muir said:

Hi and Hello from Aussie Land,

Welcome to IFI... we won't remember that once leaving this post, hence the suggestion to edit your profile to show location.

I always suggest reading this to get the best out of the forum. READ THIS FIRST

BTW, you might want to scroll down to Everything Else and check out the OZ Roll Call thread.:)

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Hi Guys, Gals ?,

who knows these days?  Thank you two guys for you responses, maybe I nee to look at cutting the length?  At this stage, I am not sure as to just what i will bge goining into, it is just that the bottle was there and I thought, what the XXXX Boy, go for it.

Maybe I should type this upside down, LOL

Anyway, to the chase.

I have an Old Acetylene bottle and that is what I am using as a shell, with the kaowool it is reduced to the size that I have given 9"by 18" (it's OK, I am an Old Bloke and understand the Imperial System of measurements, that is, until you start on volume and other stuff like that LOL)  At this point iof time, besides doing the metal work bit, my wife is into silver smithing and the way I see it, I can turn the furnace to an upright position and do the melting that way and when required, put it into the Horizontal mode and use it that way, to cover all bases as best I can and appiese the good Lady as well. LOL.

I have had a yearning to try my hand at Smithing for a long time and this is what I have started out with, so any input would be greatly appreciated.

At present I am in the throws of building a Burner and that is the reason for the inquiry, is there a site, or whatever, where you can give the specs that will tell you what you need to use X amount of burners to X amount of volume. 

All you guys up there, stay safe and thank you in advance for any further comments.  Just another thought has brightened my life, it is like sell ing something, you put a price on an item, you can always go down, but can't go up, so maybe that was in my mine when I used the length?

 

Edited by Mod30
language not allowed on G rated forum.

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5 hours ago, Garry Muir said:

is there a site, or whatever, where you can give the specs that will tell you what you need to use X amount of burners to X amount of volume.

Check out the following pinned threads: burners 101, forges 101, and the frosty T burner thread. They have all of that info and so much more.

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Your forge is a little on the long side; going from there, you can cut if down, or use it as is. On less you want to cut the forge in half, narrowing its interior will only make problem with the multiple burners it's going to need. Forges have to breath; even though they are only breathing out, it takes a certain amount of room. So, a long, overly narrow space will likely end up giving you grief when you are trying to tune its burners.

The next issue is efficiency. Heating twice the forge you can use will get hard on your wallet. But, you can install internal movable barriers, and use only part of the forge most of the time. You can this them to allow two people to run both ends of the forge--at different temperatures--independently

Those are your choices, but they don't come free; to do all those tricks well, you will need four 1/2" burners. I would suggest using "T" for a lot of good reason, that I don't want to go into just now.

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Hi All,

And thank you for your replies.  At this point of time, I am just trying to get the forge up and running with no real urgency for deciding what I want to make.  Would 10" depth be a good enough size, as it would only involve cutting the cylinder with an angle grinder.  So I would finish up with 9"Diameter and 10"depth.  This would give me a capacity of 636.172512351933 Cubic inches.  Looking at the other posts above, I would hazard a guess that there would be a requirement of two burners.  I have used 1" thick Kaowool as insulation and if that is sufficient thickness, then I think the cylinder at 10"depth might be the go.

Thank you all immensely, for taking the time to respond to my questions, they may look silly, but, I have learn't over the years, is that the question you don't ask will never get an answer and I think I would rather ask a dumb question than no know.  

 

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Welcome aboard Garry, glad to have you.

Have you ever cut an acetylene bottle? If not you'll be in for a surprise. It's full of . . . WHAT!? :o You might want to start looking around for something easier to use and a better size. Now. ;)

Making a tool that can be used for different things usually means it doesn't do any very well. Make the missus a melter of her own and a forge for you is easy and a lot more useful to you both. 

Forges 101 and Burners 101 sections cover what you want to do in depth and we'll be around when you have questions. 

Frosty The Lucky.

 

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Hi Mikey98118 And Frosty,

 

Thank you both for you replies, so 10"it will be and yes Frosty I have cut the bottle 's end off and yes it was a surprise as to what was in it, so I filled it with water just to keep the fibres from floating around and put it into plastic bags and it is now in the Trash Dump and buried.  Been working on a burner and have the basics down for it, now just have to assemble in.  Still have to get the rigidiser and the other product to cover the wool with.  No rush though, way too Old to be running around like you young Colts.

Have a Great Day guys and again thank you for your input.  Stay Safe as the situation allows.

 

Garry

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Full of fiber? Wow, last time I heard they were filled with concrete-like foam. If you check with propane distributers you can find out of certification propane tanks. They'll pull the valves and damage the threads so they can't be filled again then haull them to the scrapper. It's sometimes possible to get freebies, especially if you're a customer already. ;)

Propane tanks are a lot easier to work with. Flipped bottom up an old oxy tank makes a nice dishing die.

Frosty The Lucky.

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The *old* acetylene tanks were filled with asbestos. The Diatomaceous earth cement came later...

While other pressurized gas tanks: propane, O2, N2, Ar, He, etc; can be used for forge construction; Acetylene tanks have the issues of explosive residue, toxic residue and possible asbestos residue and so are generally STRONGLY warned against for use for forge construction.

Shoot; SOFA once sponsored a propane forge building workshop that used only pressurized welding gas tanks---but no acetylene tanks!  (Been using mine for around 20 years now IIRC  Had a friend who could source failed hydrotest tanks as "scrap")

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On 2/24/2019 at 5:54 AM, Garry Muir said:

Hi Guys, Gals ?,

who knows these days? 

We have both on IFI. When in doubt, go with "folks" or (if you want to be particularly Aussie about it) "mates".

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5 hours ago, Irondragon Forge & Clay said:

I have to ask. What did you use to cut the tank that didn't cause it to explode?

Cooee Mates, (now ya can't get any more Australian than that  LOL),

The tank sat around in my shed for years without a valve on it.  And just to be on the safe side, I filled it with water and as the water soaked down I put more into it, until it was full.  The again, being safe, I didn't just set to it with the angle grinder and slice it open straight off, I cut it all round,part way through the thickness of the wall and then used a fine chisle to open the cut.  I may be silly, but, definitely not stupid.  ;-) 

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3 minutes ago, Irondragon Forge & Clay said:

Wish we had a thumbs up emoji.:)

I missed the Emoji,s up the top, gettin Old me thinks???:D, Oh well we all gotta get there some day.

I just watched a Utube Video on making Stiffener out of Kitty Litter and Caustic Soda, has anybody used it and how does it go?  Looked to be doing the job that it was made for (I think they were calling it Liquid Glass?).:rolleyes:

Cheers all.

Garry

Quote

 

 

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Kitty litter is basically clay. Clay is basically silica and alumina. Good or bad depends on what you're using it for. Bottom line is it makes poor insulation.

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Hi Mikey,

 

The kitty litter I was watching being used is the white crystals with the blue pieces in it.  They showed the method of dissolving the crystals with water and (they used some sort of drain cleaner) but the main ingredient in the cleaner would have been caustic soda, it dissolves in the combination of water and turns into what they called Water Glass.  At stays liquid until heat is applied and it form a bonding/ heat shield type of arrangement.

Here is the Utube site that I was watching

Best Regards and thanks for your in put.

 

Garry

 

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2 hours ago, Garry Muir said:

The kitty litter I was watching being used is the white crystals with the blue pieces in it.  They showed the method of dissolving the crystals with water and (they used some sort of drain cleaner) but the main ingredient in the cleaner would have been caustic soda, it dissolves in the combination of water and turns into what they called Water Glass. 

Yeah, supposedly it's a very high heat "glue".  It's what's basically holding the "mortar" I'm using to line my forge with.  I don't know how easy it is to find a ceramics supply shop around you, but I've seen it for sale in ceramics shops here in the states.  If you feel confident cooking off lye and silic(a,on,one, whichever is needed), the go for it.  I'm always worried when dealing with caustic agents that I'll spill and cause more damage that it would've been to just buy the thing I was doing in the first place.  As Irondragon stated, it is also known as sodium silicate and that is what it was listed as in my local ceramics shotp.  It sometimes goes by the moniker "Silicic acid, sodium salt".  Here's some info from Wikipedia on it's use in refractories.

 

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Hi Lou,

 

Thank you for your comments, I will give it a go and see what happens.  That Wikipedia site tells me it has some amazing properties and many uses, must be good stuff.

Again, thank you for your time.

 

Garry

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Hey Mikey,

 

It is what the site is all about, caring and sharing.  I just hope I get it correct, but, as they say, Time will tell every body.

 

Take care Troops

 

Garry

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