BartW

European anvils being shipped in bulk to the USA ?

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Hello All;

 

When looking at the second hand sites in Belgium-Netherlands- Germany - France; I noticed there are a lot of anvils, but all are verrrry old and more important, if you want a harder face; all you'll find are vulcans. Most don't even have a makers mark. This seems strange, as a couple of great makers of anvils are in this region (Refflinghaus, UAT ...) that make a LOT of anvils. Given the average lifespan of an anvil,  and the amount of companies that could use them (and their lifespan), why don't we find truckloads of refflinghaus, UAT, PFP, picard ... anvils in this region ? 

Then I met a second hand sales guy (retired metal worker), who told me he sold about 600 anvils a year; every time he gets a cast steel or high quality, it gets bought by a swiss metal dealer, who collects them by the truckload and pays 4€/kilo (2 $ / pound). This is very strange, so I did some investigating, and indeed, most "named" anvils also from other guys gets bought by a swiss metal dealer, who sells / ships thousands of them every year to the USA (or so they told me). Really hard to track; so I asked and asked and aksed in the port of Antwerp if they had seen containers full of anvils. This costed me a crate of beer :D Yesterday, one guys showed me a pic of a container manifest which he said was full of random sized used anvils with letters on them. Bingo. 

What they do in the USA I have no clue, but the relative absence on the market of (for example) UAT anvils in the USA tells me they are not sold to blacksmiths. The Swiss guy doesn't answer any mails; but the shipping crates go to new york, to a company called Simms (or something like that - can't really read it ).

Now question ... are you USA guys shipping our european anvils over there to melt into other things?  Is 2$ / pound expensive or cheap for good steel ? Or do you guys have a couple of collectors that have a couple thousand of anvils ?

Greetings, bart

 

 

 

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Anvils are cheaper in the continent and even cheaper in the UK compared with US prices. i know a guy who ships to the US containers full. he was not cheap enough for me or I would have bought a load myself. Nothing mysterious mate. No anvil conspiracy, just business :)

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I've seen a number  of European anvils being sold at Quad State before, at top prices too.

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They're all being shipped to a secret facility deep under the Rocky Mountains, where a splinter group of the Worshipful Company of Blacksmiths plots their post-apocalyptic takeover.

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Would that be the Illuminated Hierophants of the WCoB; or one of their splinter groups? (Like the Heretical Hierarchical Hierophants...?)

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Blacksmith paradise? With the prices I have seen in Europe that guy is making a killing.....Glad somebody is getting ahead in life....

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german and Uk anvil prices are up a little but still half to a 3rd of what they cost in the USA, french anvils are really cheap....people doing business. they are not going to go off so maney to be made...

 

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Ah we 're all getting along in life. Perhaps not in the direction or at the speed we would like, but we are going anyway. 

If you are in this business long enough, an anvil is just another tool. A decade ago an old German bladesmith gave me a 300 pound square block of D2 (1.2379) hardened completely. A file skates over it everywhere. I've been comparing any anvil to it, and most I checked sucked. 

After I registered to this forum and read a lot, I realized I've been spoiled. 

But every body who wants to get started in blacksmithing or bladesmithing in these parts is royally xxxxxxx. 

Especially if all the good ones go across the big water. 

 

Mvg Bart 

 

 

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10 hours ago, BartW said:

Is 2$ / pound expensive or cheap for good steel ?

That is very reasonable in the States now a days. Five years ago $2 U.S. a pound was just about top dollar.

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IF they're coming to America, they disappear soon afterwards and aren't being dispersed throughout the smithing community.

I think we'd have seen a lot more French Pig and other oddball anvils in the US if that was the case.  Instead, we get the usual london-pattern that could have been made right here in the US for all we know.  Nothing unique in the designs, and certainly nothing marketed as being from Europe.

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Some under the Rockies and many more stored in warehouses awaiting the next Y2K. Just kidding of course.  

The Boomer generation here in the U.S. represents a significant portion of collectors and those who have the means to spend large sums on their hobbies.  There will be some amazing estate sales in my lifetime!  In the interim I’ll continue to make my wish list for metal and wood working tools...  

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1 hour ago, VaughnT said:

IF they're coming to America, they disappear soon afterwards and aren't being dispersed throughout the smithing community.

I think we'd have seen a lot more French Pig and other oddball anvils in the US if that was the case.  Instead, we get the usual london-pattern that could have been made right here in the US for all we know.  Nothing unique in the designs, and certainly nothing marketed as being from Europe.

I think you underestimate the number of customers in your country and overestimate the number of anvils imported. They represent a drop in the ocean when compared to the size of the market. Don't forget that your smithing market supports several factories that need to sell hundred times the numbers that may be imported just to make ends meet. 

Furthermore this is an anomaly and will soon level out. The increased demand in Europe will push the price up and the customers in the US will soon realise that it is better to buy new than unknown bashed up second hand. Time will tell. 

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3 minutes ago, Marc1 said:

I think you underestimate the number of customers in your country and overestimate the number of anvils imported.

No underestimating.  I just think that if truckloads of european anvils were hitting the US shores, I would be seeing a lot more of them right here on the internet.  Instead, all I see are LPA's.  Some of those LPA's could have been sourced in the UK or Mainland Europe, but we'll never know that since they don't come with a provenance.  

Maybe they're going to interior decorators?  I'm just not seeing French Pig anvils and other provably European anvil designs in any kind of numbers..... and I"m around the internet a lot.

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it may be the case they use different ways to sell them or are not selling them in the US at all.

It is not easy to know the size of a market unless you work in one of the firms that service that market, and even then, marketing data is not something that is freely available nor something you can google reliably most of the time. 

Plenty of european anvils for sale by ironworks in Petersburg for example. And there are many more of course. 

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1 hour ago, Marc1 said:

Plenty of european anvils for sale

Marc is right. Lots of Euro anvils for sale here in the USA if you know where to look.  He's likely correct about the price curve as well.  

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