Screen Time vs. Anvil Time

[ForgingH]

On 1/14/2019 at 9:00 AM, JHCC said:

Yes, there's an important distinction between "facing the screen when you could be facing the anvil" and "facing the screen when you can't  be facing the anvil".

Definitely

[M.G.]

Super great side thread guys!

I would like to add, from my experiences in other creative endeavors, I find that screen time is very valuable to me. Personally I find watching others work really gets my mind moving in very inspired ways. I use this inspiration to get motivated to get on with making.

[bluerooster]

I guess I'm an oddball.  I usually sit down and think through a process. Then put what I've thought about to work. Sometimes it works out, sometimes it doesn't.

I started forging a gouge. Someone here pointed me to a book to read. (thank you to the someone, it was a most excellent read) The book told me to do what I had already done with regard to forging a gouge.   It was conformation to what I had already figured to be a good way to do it.   By the time I had read the book, and the part about making gouges, I had already done what was outlined in the book, almost verbatim, as it just seemed to be the way to get it done.  It took me a while to get it done, because I had to make a swage block to form the blade, which was not covered in the book. (making of the swage block) 

  So far, the majority of my forging time has been spent making tools to forge other things with.  Various hardies, tongs, swage blocks, anvils, punches, drifts, etc.  

It's been; lets make a (whatever) today. Well, I get started on the project, then find I need a tool that I don't have. Well, I have a forge, anvil, and hammer. I guess I gotta make one.

Well, now I have the tool, and can finish the project.  As a result, many of my projects take quite a while to complete, as most of the time is spent making various tools needed to do the job.   One of these days, I'll have enough tools to just start and finish a project in one go.  But the education that I get in making the various tools needed is priceless.

Just today, I need a gizmo to bend a piece of hot steel.  Scroll hardy?  anyway, I need a chunk of 7/8" square stock to fit the hardy hole, I don't have any. I do have some 1' round stock. So I turned it into about 4" of 7/8" square.  It took some time, moving metal, but I now have what I need to make a couple of hardies. 2" of it will become a scroll attachement, and the other 2" of square, along with about 4" of the round, will become a beak hardy.  (I have no horn and a beak would be handy)

I guess what I'm getting at is there's no replacement for hands on doing it.  Sure read the books, watch the videos, (which I enjoy, and learn a lot from) But, don't be afraid to just go do it the way it seems right.   I've spent over 30 years moving metal by hand and hammer, but blacksmithing is different for sure. Very similar, but different. 

[ThomasPowers]

Book with info on forging gouges: sounds like Weygers "The Modern Blacksmith" or "The Complete Modern Blacksmith". 

Person who suggests it/them a lot; sounds like someone I know...

[Frosty]

One of my favorite recommended books too. For a one off swage wood works fine. A hole saw between two blocks of wood clamped together makes two swages the OD of the hole saw.

Making the tools to make the tools to  make the product is a fact of blacksmithing life.

Videos and books are knowledge and can't do you much good until you've applied it. Practice makes you good at it IF its good practice.

There is NO single thing/path to becoming proficient. Life isn't that easy.

 Frosty The Lucky.

[jlpservicesinc]

I"m not a fan of the Weygers books.. I own them both and think they have value..    Just not what I look for in a blacksmithing book..  

[ThomasPowers]

And what do you suggest in their place?  There are smithing books I'm not fond of too---which is why I suggest folks ILL the books before buying them to see if they "work" for them.

[Frosty]

Weygers books aren't "blacksmithing" books, per se, they are a lot more than just that but not a lot of detail in any subject covered. I recommend them for how resourceful he was at field expedient tools and equipment. That's is pretty darn valuable for folk who don't have or can't afford store bought. I recommend various blacksmithing books for blacksmithing techniques, often depending on the person's needs and skill levels. 

You're a skilled professional blacksmith with an equipped shop, different situation entirely. What do you look for in books? 

 Frosty The Lucky.

[jlpservicesinc]

Thomas and Frosty.. 

Like said.. I own both books..   Both my Grandfather and my Father were both Inventors of sorts and many of the items made in the Weygers books (machines) were built and hanging around the house though neither one of them ever read the books nor had any idea who he was. .  LIke a home made table saw..  Or bench grinder and such and such and such..  Both were amazing mickey  mousers..  clever really. 

If I were a carver, or sculptor his books would be priceless.   They have good information.  Also on improvised forges and such. 

I had bought a whole bunch of books early on and both his books were on the list and spent time looking at them and putting the information in the thought process. 

Since for myself I need a bunch of repetition I like books that are more like a journal or workbook format.   

Each skill building upon the previous..  I have also found this works about the best for the majority of people out there though they have no interest in such things. 

I know now just how important seat time at the forge is..   Seat time on any given project really be it knife making,  horse shoeing,  engine repair, roofing, etc, etc. Any  thing worth learning. ..    The more time spent doing it the more understanding takes place. 

I'm listing these in order of what I feel is a great starting point to work towards skill wise or in other words "How I would go about it today" starting with nothing but books.  (this excludes the books after axe making as then it steps out bounds for a basic skills drills and learning. 

"The Blacksmith Craft"   Cosira  book is excellent and ease to find a PDF.. 

"Plain and Ornamental forging"  Ernst Schwarzkopf 

"The skills of a Blacksmith" Mark Aspery's  (based on the Cosira series of books format).   

Once the lessons are decent enough. I would start looking at other resources. 

"The blacksmiths Cookbook" Francis Whitaker is a good one. 

Otto Schmirler "Werk und werkzeug des kunstschmieds "  The smithy's craft and tools. 

Axe Making and general information: "Swedish Blacksmithing" Karl-gunnor noren and Lars Enander
 

Knife smithing: 

I thought the book on "Forging and finishing the "Brut De Forge knife"   Joe Keeslar was excellent instructional as well informational with both how and why.. 

The books by our own Steve Sells for general information and ideas. 

There are so many books on knife making that are excellent with clear information and then many that are simply "Idea" books. 


There are many books out there and while many have good information they are more "idea" books vs "this is what you do".. 

Again, I'm more about a "skill" vs a project  and if a project of known skill set's can be put into the process that the skill then can be used somewhere else appropriately then it was a well worth investment and is the reason the "Wegyers" books are decent but they don't really address many items which even today are not talked about in any great clarity especially when dealing with hardware,  certain kinds of tools of traditional MFG etc, etc. 

I know even some talented smiths who lack some basics.. Cough, cough, cough..  (finger pointing at me)..   Though I am getting better.  

I keep thinking I need to write a book but then see so many beginner books and to write a book like I'd want to would take 5 years and cover much of the information I see lacking..  Ah... 

[ThomasPowers]

I've always considered Weygers' books as getting started books, (except as you mentioned, the parts on carving tools),  in particular starting with nothing. Definitely not manuals for advanced smithing in production or historical fields.  However; as you probably have noticed; we get a ton of people here wanting to get started and starting with pretty much nothing.   

20+ years ago, I think we were on the Blacksmiths' Virtual Junkyard back then, there was someone who said that to start to do blacksmithing you needed to  pony up a couple of thousand US dollars for equipment. I disagreed and the next weekend went and assembled a beginners setup for under US$25 and the fanciest tool used in it's construction was a quarter inch electric drill.  I still push for getting people started as soon as possible for I also firmly think that the doing is the road to getting it done.

If you end up wanting to go further and up your game; then there is a number of ways you can go and books that support them.  (I have several German books on smithing; some even in German as they address aspects of more advanced smithing. There is also at least one bladesmithing book out there that I disliked so much I didn't even keep a copy of it, (published in the early 1980's). I was so happy when JPH published his books and Steve Sells his books.)

I wouldn't disagree with your list of books.

[Irondragon Forge ClayWorks]

Boy that brings back memories. keenjunk dot com - Blacksmith Virtual Junkyard. Gone since 2005, I think, spent some time there myself.

[Frosty]

Ah the old days! keen junk and the junkyard, those were the days . . . when flamewars happened for disagreeing with certain personalities. Not as bad as the BBS. days but not a lot better. 

Ayup, I can keep up with the times, 15-20 years ago = the old days!

 Frosty The Lucky.

[Gandalfgreen]

All my reading had made me want to forge more and plan alot more cant wait to finish my setup so I can start.

[ThomasPowers]

Why I suggest starting as fast as possible:  1000 hours working with a $100 anvil will make you a better blacksmith than 100 hours working on a $1000 anvil.  A simple set up can get you learning to hammer hot metal and progressing rather than waiting on the "perfect set up".

[Frosty]

Ayup, ditto build a fire and start hammering hot steel. Use what you can find for an anvil, it's shape is really rather meaningless so long as it's stable enough not to fall on you. Find or buy long stock so you don't need tongs. Using tongs is an acquired skill no sense trying to learn more things at once than necessary.

The only real specific tool you need to get started is a smooth faced hammer under 2 lbs. I highly recommend a 2lb. Drill Hammer, they're heavy enough to move metal well and the shorter handle gives you better control. Being of modest weight with better control you'll be able to build your hammer control while not tiring so quickly nor the chances of injuring yourself. Being able to control your blows will teach you how to move the metal more quickly with more successful forging sessions.

Make sense? 

Frosty The Lucky.

[JHCC]

Don’t worry, guys; he’s coming over for an intro lesson on Sunday. We’ll dress his (Picard, Swedish pattern) hammer while we’re at it.

[Glenn]

Gingham, calico, plaid or maybe a scandi print.  Inquiring minds want to know.

[JHCC]

No artificial fibers, that’s for sure.

[anvil]

Lol, you have a point. However spend a 1000 hours on a $400 124# PW is the best of both worlds.  

 

 

[Fowllife]

On 6/21/2021 at 10:39 PM, Gandalfgreen said:

All my reading had made me want to forge more and plan alot more cant wait to finish my setup so I can start.

I was going to say there are a couple of us in the area, it look like you already found John. I'm just a bit West of him. This time of year I don't have a lot of extra time to spend in the forge, but if you want to swing out sometime shoot me a message.

I don't know if they are currently having meetings, but the WRABA (Western Reserve Artist Blacksmith Association) isn't too far either.

[ThomasPowers]

Lets see; I sold the 248 PW with few hours by me on it. (didn't need a medium sized anvil when I could go larger or smaller with just a few steps.)  My first long term anvil was a 165# PW for US$100; prices have gone up and my next PW was $150 for a beautiful condition 112# PW.

[Gandalfgreen]

Still getting use to site forgot to follow after posted thanks to all who responded and yes just time to do it. Havent stopped thinking about hammering a piece of round bar square again since my day with John.

[Frosty]

Spending a day with John makes everybody feel like hammering round things square. 

Frosty The Lucky.

[ThomasPowers]

A word of advice: "Be careful what you ask for!"   I had a student come over to forge once who wanted to forge but didn't have a project to work on.  So I told him to make pineapple twists; after weeks of doing that he's now the "expert" of the group on that.  Of course that showed that I like him. Other projectless students get told to make tent stakes to be sold to pay for propane...

[Frosty]

Who doesn't need a better tent stake? Somebody's got to make them.

Frosty The Lucky.