yves

A major commission for me, a gril

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Just finished and (finaly, at last !) installed this on 31 December 2018.

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10 hours ago, jlpservicesinc said:

Yes, very nice..  How many hours? 

I will get back to you on this.

10 hours ago, Irondragon Forge & Clay said:

I really like the grill and the joinery. What are the dimensions?

Irondragon, very happy you liked it. Dimensions : height 49-1/16". The height was not crucial. Width, 39-1/16". I could not be more than 40" and less than 38".

Daswulf and JHCC, thanks. Your appreciations are welcome.

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11 hours ago, jlpservicesinc said:

Yes, very nice..  How many hours? 

I checked my notes. I put in some 175 hours.

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Thanks you  so much for getting back to me with time..     With that kind of time, I am guess hand forgings and hand forming?  Any jigs or machines used for the rings? 

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21 minutes ago, BIGGUNDOCTOR said:

Beautiful work. Are the collars just bent around or welded too?

Thanks.

No, the collars are a tight fit.

They are 1/4" half round. This material is not available here. I forged about 40 feet of 1/4" square cold rolled steel in a swage block to make the collars.

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I bent them with a torch after having seen what happened to the example /study I had forged when I installed the collars hot from the forge. As you can see in the pic below, the half round has disappeared under the hammer and an unsightly flat appeared instead. As you can see in the pics of the first post, there are no flats on the collars of the gril in front. Since the back is not seen, the gril being installed on a wall, it did not matter that there would be flats in the back of the gril.

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15 minutes ago, jlpservicesinc said:

Thanks you  so much for getting back to me with time..     With that kind of time, I am guess hand forgings and hand forming?  Any jigs or machines used for the rings? 

No machine. I thought I was very smart when I came up with a jig to bend them. It appeared to work. Of course the steel tried to come back on the easy side but it was easiy controlled with a light hammer. When I checked in a jig (square of 4-5/16" sides), none, I repeat, none of the rings fit perfectly. I put them back in the forge and adjusted them to fit. I guess after all that the jig is OK and that it is normal that things would happen that way. The jig gets you close to your diameter and you finish by forging. I would repeat the process if I had to make another run of these. Unless you would offer a better way …

I'll take a picture of the jig and post it later.

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Jig takes you close and you finish by hand. that is the way to make it look good. You can bend cold in a bending machine but it will not look the same and you can always tell. 

Did you tack weld the ends together? 

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25 minutes ago, Marc1 said:

Jig takes you close and you finish by hand. that is the way to make it look good. You can bend cold in a bending machine but it will not look the same and you can always tell. 

Did you tack weld the ends together? 

There was no need to weld the ends together. The ends met perfectly or almost and the line where they meet is hidden behind a collar.

I thank you for making clear how and why the jig is used. I found out by myself and was wondering if there was a better way, barring the use of a (cold) bender.

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Way back when I was making a lot of rings the hardway.. I would forge them in a continuous ring.. Much like a coil spring is wound the first few get sized while still on the bar then each one after that is referenced to these first few and once the bar is completely coiled  and sized to the first few, then just cut with a hacksaw straight across, few hits on the anvil levels and puts them into the same plain.. If done carefully this give really good results.. 

I might have to make a video on it..    Anyhow, as Marc1 pointed out anything that is hand made will need tweaking but this also retains the wonderful look of hand forged.. 

 

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That seems like a good way to go for lots of rings. How do you heat such long coil? 

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 Depends on the ring size..  up to 6" - 6+ Od can just be done in coal forge..  larger rings because of the length a gas forge or oil forge is easier..

 

There is a point that it's just not practical and then it's a roller or single ring time...

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Mm ... just thinking about it ... if it is a 2 man operation, one could weld the end of the bar to a pipe, and whilst one heats the bar with an oxy and slowly turns the pipe, the other works it with a hammer. a bit more costly but faster that walking to and from the forge.

Is it cheating to use the oxy ? :P 

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Only if someone judges it to be so..  Each person must figure out their own road.. 

The O/A torch opened a lot of doors to different and/or faster work.. 

While I am a purist (colonial style or trade smith oriented)  Hammer, anvil, vise, forge,  for as much of the work as I can, there is also a place for other means and I don't  judge what others are doing if it's quality work.. 

A/O torches with carbide gas generators were all the rage at the turn of the century as was electric arc welding once it was developed into a usable product.. 

I had read an article where a General smith who worked in the city doing all odds and ends  with a large percentage of carriage work bought an electric arc welder as soon as he had seen it in a trade publication..  He said once he had this, he threw out the tire shrinker as it was faster to just arc weld the tire smaller.. 

I have a tire shrinker and it is pretty fast.. (1 heat can take up 2-4" in tire length depending on tire stock size.. 

Anyhow, modernization is what a prudent smith as always looking for.. 

Thankfully, I'm not looking to make money with smithing but if I were, the hustle is still there for those that are looking.. 

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Interesting, my post is missing. No matter my questions were answered. Excellent work!

Forge welded rings and a cone mandrel to final shape to dimension is pretty quick. Especially after doing that many rings.  Particularly in a one man shop.

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I see no reason for your post to be missing. When you post be sure and click the black box "submit reply" bottom right to send your post to the forum. Otherwise it does not get sent.

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I'm sure it was something I did. Perhaps I was distracted by something else. It won't be the first time. I just me toned it just in case.

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16 hours ago, jlpservicesinc said:

Way back when I was making a lot of rings the hardway.. I would forge them in a continuous ring.. Much like a coil spring is wound the first few get sized while still on the bar then each one after that is referenced to these first few and once the bar is completely coiled  and sized to the first few, then just cut with a hacksaw straight across, few hits on the anvil levels and puts them into the same plain.. If done carefully this give really good results.. 

I might have to make a video on it..    Anyhow, as Marc1 pointed out anything that is hand made will need tweaking but this also retains the wonderful look of hand forged.. 

 

We do the same thing in making bulk rings for chainmaille work. Just on a much smaller scale. 1/8" square stock is heated and hand wrapped round stock and wire and spun using an old electricians hole hawg drill. 

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I've never done maille with sq wire as it was uncommon in the times I was portraying.  How did you cut it?

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2 hours ago, anvil said:

Interesting, my post is missing.

It happens to me on occasions that I go somewhere else, or my old laptop battery carkes it, however, if you come back to posting a reply and you see the reply window empty, as soon as you start typing in it, the old post or unfinished post comes back. At least that is what my Mac does. 

As for shaping rings on a cone mandrel how do you get them all the same size?

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2 hours ago, ThomasPowers said:

I've never done maille with sq wire as it was uncommon in the times I was portraying.  How did you cut it?

Zip wheel on a die grinder with a sacrificial mandrel. Usually if I have somebody that requests square in a rush I'll use lock washers.

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I was wondering if you were trying to duplicate Boris Godunov s baidana.

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