TRR1143

First Forge Build Plans

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I was wondering about that too. Having the flames "lifting off of the burner" doesn't seem to be something that fine tuning will cure...

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I've since placed the burners back in the forge. I started tuning the front one and I think it's pretty close, definitely improved. I've been working on the back burner and have trimmed off quite a bit of the tip, but it still appear to be weaker than the front one and tinged green, but it's shape improves whenever both burners are running. I'll post pictures below. YouTube link here.

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Front Burner

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Back one, not as clean a cone. Likes to smoosh into the floor initially, cleans up when both are running.

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Both running together, front one is clearly hotter.

Frosty, my mig tips are 0.023". In terms of determining alignment I've basically just eyeballed it. I had help making these with a bridgeport and they look pretty good. I left the front burner in the forge because it seemed to be running very well, but the rear one had issues so I took it out and took some pictures of the tube.

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I run tip cleaners through them pretty thoroughly after I sand each little bit down, I saw what you meant and ran the cleaner through again. Shaped up a bit better.

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Your very first photo shows the central problem with the MIG tip being out of parallel with the axis of the mixing tube; this is probably why the burner's flame is lifting off. It is very hard to fine tune a burner when its flame is unstable. That flame will remain unstable until the MIG tip and mixing tube align properly. I'm sorry, but "happy talk" won't end your burner problems.

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I guess I'll find some more T fittings and try and do a better job at centering up that hole for the MIG tip just right. And by "lifting off" you mean how the flame tends to wander from the flare opening, which looks to be a problem with both burners, correct?

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If you run the tip file through it too aggressively or too many times you'll "wallow it out", file it out of round. 

I trim mig tips with a drill motor and fine, single cut file. The teeth are angled and cut left to right so you have to reverse the drill motor so it's turning clockwise. Then keep the file to the right of the orifice hole so it cuts away from it and doesn't make a burr in the hole. After that just one or two passes with a new tip file will clear it without deformation. "By new tip file;" what's actually important is it is STRAIGHT, no kinks or bends that will cut heavy on one side. Give a shout if that doesn't make sense.

Take 1/32" off that mig tip deburr and try it out. There's NO way a 1/2" burner should be running that rich with the jet that close to where it should be. The deformity could do it though. If the jet looks like that after you file it down replace it.

Frosty The Lucky.

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Before you start all over again with another "T" there is an outside chance that two wrongs could make this right; try bending the tip just a little out of center to see if the situration will improve. You have little to lose at this point.

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Bending the tip didn't seem to do much, and I went ahead and replaced the tip on the back burner, as filing it down some more didn't do much. I was too aggressive with the tip file. I went ahead and made another pair of T's, making sure that they line up with the mixing tube. I'll swap those out and see how it goes.

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After trimming more tips for these burners they're pretty close to even with each other, but the front burner is still running hotter. A new tip on the back burner took care of the excessive "richness" that it was showing. The flames themselves also look fairly similar. I decided to run the forge up to temperature and stick some steel in there to see how it performs, and, given that I was under more optimal lighting, I might dare to say that it's looking rather yellow to me, although I kind of want to order a thermocouple or something to measure the temperature so I know for sure. The dragon's breath is mostly blue with some orange in there, but it would change to green every now and again, probably due to some copper that wound up in the chamber from fiddling with the copper tubing and sanding down mig tips all day.

The forge worked wonderfully for an hour or so and then both burners began suffering at almost the same time. I heard the change first and then small pops/poofs at the tip itself would happen occasionally and the burners began sputtering rapidly, even with the doors wide open. I shut it down right after. During the cool down I flipped them back on and they would only sputter the same way. I'll check/clean them out for debris tomorrow, but I'm curious if this could be a heat issue as well? 

Let me know what you guys think, thanks!

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Cleaned out the tips this morning and the forge worked fine again. Tested the temperature with a small piece of copper, which melted readily when the forge was up to temperature. Copper melts around 1980-1990 F or so, so I’d guess I’m north of 2000F somewhat. Pleased with that. 

I was then working on a set of tongs and that front burner started sputtering rapidly again. I’ll clean the tip out again, maybe some tape from a fitting is coming through but I can’t help but wonder if it’s due to the heat or something. I also noticed that the top door tracks were glowing a dull red on either side when I shut the forge off. Maybe unrelated but I figured I’d share anyway. 

Overall the build has improved a lot, thanks to everyone helping me out on here. Thanks a ton to Mikey, Frosty, and Irondragon for all of the help and tips during the process. There’s a great community here. 

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It is pretty certain to be debris clogging the gas jet. Unscrew the MIG tip and blow it out backward to the normal gas flow. Do the same to the rest of the gas assembly. People have even found debris in their gas hose...

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I have another thought regarding the backfiring.  You have cast nozzles, and it is that variable that is different from other 'T' burners.  What are the sizes and shapes of them?  What PSI are you running?  The backfiring is happening when the forge gets hot, and sounds similar to what happens in my ribbon burner is the pressure is too low - it's fine until the burner head gets too hot, then it backfires and I have to turn the pressure up.   

Dan R

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The cast nozzles were made using 3D printed forms that mimic the 1:12 taper spec that seem to be the standard. The taper starts approximately 1/2” into the lining measured from the shell.

Once up to temperature the forge is only running around 8-10 psi. I’ve tried cranking up the pressure some but it doesn’t do much besides speed up the sputtering sound.

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