51 Papy

Drill bit lubricant

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I find for small holes variable speed cordless drills really excel. You can put them in low range and keep the speed down were it needs to be. I built a goose neck hitch for my pickup out of 3/4" plate steel with nothing but a cordless drill. Once you understand drilling basics, no problems.

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I used a cole drill to put 1/2" holes in 1/2" thick plate while standing 10' up on a ladder.  Slow but doable (and did not try to pitch me off the ladder if the bit caught...)

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On 12/30/2018 at 10:55 AM, Frosty said:

The real answer is actually pretty easy, it's knowing what cutting lube is for. It's NOT a lubricant it's a coolant.

 

4 hours ago, Frosty said:

I never said oil, cutting or otherwise isn't a lubricant. That would've been a foolish statement and unless I'm making a joke I try not to be foolish.

Well Frosty, I take it you were joking ... :) 

 

4 hours ago, Frosty said:

Perhaps deliberately misunderstanding clear statements for your purposes of "discussion" is what some folk find tiring enough to speak out about?

I concede that English is not my strongest language ... but I believe that if someone says "It is NOT a lubricant" there is no room for misunderstanding, let alone deliberately. 

So is it settled that cutting oil is a lubricant and needs to lubricate the cutting tool as it cuts the steel? I hope so.

You quiz question brings and interesting point to understanding the drilling process and why some folks answer that they don't use lube ... implying perhaps that lube is not necessary (?)

The thing is that if you drill a 1/4" hole in a 3/8" flat bar and your drill bit is sharp and you have a slow drill setting and you push the drill hard enough to produce a steady and thick enough swarf, it is the swarf that carries away the heat and spares the drill from overheating. Enough pressure to keep a good contact between drill and metal will assure the transfer of heat. 

Therefore if the drilling process is short lived, the little heat produced has ample time to be dissipated without cutting aid of any sort. Repeat the same process and drill a couple of inch deep into a bar and watch your drill bit disintegrate. 

Anyway it was fun as always and I hope no one keeps a grudge due to my antics.

Always lubricate and cool your drill bits if you want to keep them cutting well. Yes, doing so 3 meter up a ladder with a hand drill is probably not a proposition. Having said that, when I need to drill big holes with a magnetic base drill and a broche I always use the lube container and make sure it pumps even when the drill is upside down. 

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HI all. In answer to Frostys question about drilling into hardened steel without annealing,

 

I have in the past used the blank shaft end of an old drill bit the same size or slightly smaller than the one I will use to drill the piece/s.

Fit it to the drill press so the blank end will contact the piece. Fix the piece as you would normally do for drilling and bring the drill bit down onto it.

Obviously, without any lubrication (as attaining heat is required) hold the drill bit on the piece with a medium of pressure until it starts to get really hot, like glowing hot then release it and allow to cool

naturally. This will anneal a localised area of metal around where you intend to drill through the piece. which you should now be able to without problem.

 

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this discussion has been interesting, and i for one concur with marc . however being a blacksmith i'm cheap err frugal, and have found that the bath oil found in the dollar store type shops works very well and gives an easy clean up afterwards. sure it's not tap'o'matic or the like but for DIY type use it works really well. in our thread cutting machines we have used canola oil with great success

For Frosty, i regularly give knifemakers a short course on the drilling of hard steels and it goes as follows 1) use a masonry bit. .2) fit a diamond tile cutting disk into your 4" baby grinder(is that what you call a peanut grinder?) 3)sharpen the masonry bit like a hss bit with the diamond blade the slotted ones work but smooth is preferable.4) now drill at a low speed using water(lots of it) as a coolant the steel stays hard and the hole gets drilled. it's as easy as making a mistake:D  P.S. for those who want to DIY drill S/S try using hand cleaner(flyght,mitgrit, ect.) as a coolant and lube and you can use HSS drill bits at very slow speed.

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On 1/4/2019 at 12:38 PM, Marc1 said:

and your drill bit is sharp and you have a slow drill setting and you push the drill hard enough to produce a steady and thick enough swarf, it is the swarf that carries away the heat and spares the drill from overheating. Enough pressure to keep a good contact between drill and metal will assure the transfer of heat.

For those who have read enough, feel at liberty to skip over this bonus material......

Those eight words are the core of my philosophy as a current journeyman tool and cutter grinder. My position has been proved in practice from intake to exhaust on modern turbofan (see GE LEAP, Trent, MTU, etc.) engine components. Thus, I cite myself. This position is further exemplified by the increasing use of ~10,000+RPM ceramic and ceramic/metallic tools, which must be run dry. High pressure airflow may be used - not for cooling, but for evacuating swarf (chips & fines) from the tool path.

As for all previous contributions to this thread, I cite Rudyard Kipling and Tribal Lays. Many excellent anecdotes for our consideration.

Viscous cutting media like that shown below, has its' place in certain tapping or broaching operations, as a narrow example. Not advisable in this instance, because it promotes the re-cutting of fines. Ianinsa, Canola based PAM works much better:rolleyes:.

Robert Taylor

 

20190104_122911Reesize.jpg

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On 1/4/2019 at 11:38 AM, Marc1 said:
On 12/29/2018 at 2:55 PM, Frosty said:

The real answer is actually pretty easy, it's knowing what cutting lube is for. It's NOT a lubricant it's a coolant.

 

On 1/4/2019 at 7:21 AM, Frosty said:

I never said oil, cutting or otherwise isn't a lubricant. That would've been a foolish statement and unless I'm making a joke I try not to be foolish.

Well Frosty, I take it you were joking ... :) 

Well, you got me there Marc. I DID use your terminology in my statements and I ASSUMED the meaning was clear. Now THAT was a foolish mistake. I'll try and remember next time you wish to start a "discussion."

Yes, a properly sharpened bit used at  the right speed and feed rate in a material capable of making a continuous curl of swarf does minimize heat build up in the base metal and the swarf is in contact with the bit for so short a time the bit hardly warms. 

Seriously, this is "metal shop 101" basic stuff. No shop classes when you were in school? Bummer. Reading the name on a product container isn't learning much if anything about the product's function. 

 

40 minutes ago, Anachronist58 said:

Canola based PAM works much better:rolleyes:.

You keep a can of Pam in the shop too? It also makes a decent release agent when using epoxy, polyester resins or some other adhesives.

Frosty The Lucky.

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5 hours ago, Anachronist58 said:

Viscous cutting media like that shown below, has its' place in certain tapping or broaching operations, as a narrow example. Not advisable in this instance, because it promotes the re-cutting of fines. Ianinsa, Canola based PAM works much better:rolleyes:.

Robert Taylor

Ha ha, cheddar cheese for cutting compound? Must try that, if anything it will give a pleasant smell in the workshop once it comes up to temperature. Any recommendations on the ideal pressure to drill without burning the cheese? 

4 hours ago, Frosty said:

Well, you got me there Marc. I DID use your terminology in my statements and I ASSUMED the meaning was clear. Now THAT was a foolish mistake. I'll try and remember next time you wish to start a "discussion."

Well Frosty, you may be surprised to know that I am not out to 'get' anyone, only interested in having a pleasant discussion (not a "discussion") Most of the time I have great debates with my little Spoodle. He mostly agrees with me :)

 

IMG_2728.JPG

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interesting topic. I use water for most drilling under 3/4". Rapid tap was my go to for larger. Then they changed the formula.

Im curious why water works for a while. 

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I believe that "Tap Magic"  originally had trichloroethane in it.  When it was found to promote lung cancer, it was removed/replaced, etc.  It was also used as an all-purpose cleaner at some of the auto plants around town here.  I know of several me who died from it.

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I knew people that used to wash their hands in MEK AKA Methyl Ethyl Death.  Of course when I was in my 20's I once worked as a stripper and so my exposure to methylene chloride probably has my liver ready to be slabbed and polished for knife handles...

Now when I teach I try to PREVENT young students from doing stupid stuff they may have to pay for years later.

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8 minutes ago, ThomasPowers said:

I once worked as a stripper

That's not an image I needed in my head.

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However it is your head creating the image.  I stripped the woodwork in a large Victorian era House being restored by a Doctor.

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2 hours ago, JHCC said:

That's not an image I needed in my head.

I really need some mental floss and I slammed my mind's eyes shut as fast as I could! :wacko: 

I worked in a rubber plant for a while and we worked with our hands in low yield hydrocarbon solvents all day. Mostly Toluol and acetone, the MEK was mostly for cleaning tools and hands. Occasionally I had to get out the xylene to work with phenolic or epoxy resins. 

Frosty The Lucky.

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Years ago I worked in a shop and was the head "driller and tapper" and drilled and tapped many thousands of holes.   We worked with heavier stock up to 3" or 4" square or round and a product called Tap Free was used exclusively - it was not an oil and evaporated quickly.  It was nice to use since your work did not get all slippery and messy.  I just did a search for it and it is now called a cutting oil so maybe the formula has changed.  When drilling a hole it is important to keep enough pressure  on the drill bit so it cuts continuously.  Allowing the drill to spin in the hole can actually harden your workpiece making your job tougher and potentially ruining your drill bits edge.  When drilling deep holes, the bit must be withdrawn once and awhile to clear the drill bits flutes otherwise you can break the bit.  In my shop now I use Tap Magic which is oily.  Jewelers will frequently use bees wax as a cutting lubricant and WD40 works well with aluminum.

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On 12/29/2018 at 11:29 PM, Marc1 said:

Hum ... at risk of being contentious Frosty, the answer is not easy. It may sound easy if you read the multiplicity of answers from people who have been drilling steel for decades, and each having a different answer and swearing that each one work the best, from candle wax to water. 

Screen full of useless quoting removed

Guess you never heard of a cold air gun for drilling and milling.

3 hours ago, arftist said:

Guess you never heard of a cold air gun for drilling and milling.

Too bad whoever edited this didn't leave the relevant portion. 

It would not have been an issue if you edited the quote yourself

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