A question from a young man

[Mel Le Roux]

Hello everyone,

First let me say that IforgeIron is the best source of information that I have found only regarding blacksmithing and that people here seem to be nice.

I have a question, but I need to me explain my situation a little before.

I am French, 22 years old and about to graduate as a civil engineer. I have been doing metalworks for 2 and a half years now, trying to organise it with my studies since I can’t forge in Paris. I won’t hide : my interest started with youtube, but when I managed to get hot metal between me and the anvil, I understood that it was completely different. So yes, I tried to make knife and other popular things but not only. I’ll be glad to share some pictures if you want me to.

Last year’s summer, I was housed by Stephen Rylance on Jersey island for a month and a half, he agreed to give me work experience in his workshop (I found him on BABA website). It is an 8 people company and I mainly assisted the blacksmith there but the fabricators as well. It was truly an incredible experience and I have been warmly welcomed by everyone I met there. Since I left, all I want to do is go back to a workshop doing metalworks.

Here is my question : knowing that I’ll be free in one year from now, what is the best that I can do now to give metalworks a real try before I find myself trapped doing something that I don’t like ?
I really want to give it a try.

It seems that there is no blacksmith association in France or at least I haven’t found it and I concluded that the UK would be the best solution. I don’t want to take a multiple year class since I am a little bit tired of studies.

Thank you for reading and keeping this forum alive, I hope that you are doing well.

Mel

[Ferrous Beuler]

Mel, welcome to IFI. I suggest you take a class at John C. Campbell folk school here in the U.S. if you have the time and the means to get here. A biginer or intermediate class would be best for you,

 

I recomend you request their catalog be sent to you and then select an intermediate blacksmithing class to attend of a one week duration. Good luck!

Do you really think a trip over seas is best rather than taking a class more local?

 

[jlpservicesinc]

Hello Mel..  I can't suggest any new classes per say..  It sounds to me more like you are in for a search to see what or how to make a career choice.. 

This really becomes a hard one in todays time frame..  

The blacksmith of old is gone.. Today one needs to be a metal fabricator, blacksmith, book keeper. self starter.. etc, etc.. 

It doesn't mean it's not possible to " MAKE" a living but for sure it takes more than just smithing skills.. 

I wish you much luck.. 

[BIGGUNDOCTOR]

Do some studies on business to go along with the smithing.

Why can't you forge in Paris?

As for smithing as a career. You will first need to find a niche that will generate enough income to keep a roof over your head and food on the table. That niche could be furniture, sculpture, architectural , restoration...... Location will play a big part in what you do, and how much competition you have. I saw a show where a guy made custom entry gates for large estates with the cost of the gates being in the $100,000 range. If you are interested in just the financial aspect, I also know a guy who just turned 30 who 5 years ago got a 3D printer. He now has 125 printers, 30 employees, and is now making a $1,000,000 profit this year making cookie cutters.... go figure. A lot of successful artistic endeavors had a large amount of luck involved - right place, right time. You have to sell yourself more than the art you are making to make the sales. Hate to say it, but a good story sells art. Just watch Con Artist , a video about Mark Kostabi, and Exit Through the Gift Shop, a video about Banksy.

Also think about different angles to smithing like teaching and selling supplies. The ones who got rich during the California Gold Rush of 1849 were not the miners, but the shops selling the shovels, picks, and Levis.

Good luck with your endeavors

[Marc1]

A search for "listing of blacksmiths" in France contains 4,579 names, with 66 in the region of the Pyrénées-Orientales.

Marill is a blacksmith, a job North Americans associate with horseshoes and swords. Marill is not employed at a castle, but rather out of a workshop in modern-day France. Ironwork is his job, art his passion. Like many people in France’s Languedoc-Roussillon region, he has combined the two.

In terms of the job sector, Blanc and Jean think there will always be a demand for blacksmiths in this region of France, due to the high number of centuries-old buildings. Modern cities like Paris may not need as many experts in the art of ferronnerie but ancient towns like the medieval city of Carcassonne will always need restoration.

“America doesn’t have any 12th century churches,” says Jean. “But we have many of them.”

had tp change to a readable size font

 

[Kozzy]

One piece if advice I wish I had taken when young was to "live light".  Instead of bogging one's life down with material goods, stay mobile and "light" enough that you can give your dreams a try...and if it doesn't work, try again elsewhere but with some changes.  Once you have car payments, expensive rent, credit cards that bought the stuff to furnish that expensive apartment..and yes, even a spouse to maintain... it gets a lot harder to take a long-shot at your dream.  (If you find the right person for a spouse...which is rare...then go for it but don't fall into the trap of thinking you need that because society expects you to do the marriage/kids thing).

Fabrication..especially with the ability to design..is where the money is.  Smithing is a bit harder to pay the bills with.  That doesn't mean you don't do smithing, what it means is that you use an alternative product path to build the smithing business.  Even if that's repairing cars part time, it smooths the low paycheck months (years) and allows you to build up a shop/skills/tooling that are marketable for the things you enjoy more like actual smithing.  

As far as smithing education, there is no single "right" answer.  Some people do better with classes, some better acting as a cheap apprentice, some learn at the school of hard knocks all by themselves.  The main thing is to make sure it doesn't turn into a job you soon hate.  When deadlines loom for a project, the bill collectors are bugging you, a customer decides you did it wrong when you didn't and 12 other things are beating on your brain, even something you love to do can get old.  

Oh...and don't neglect a business management, accounting,  and marketing class or two. That background stuff is just as important to making your dream come true as banging on hot iron. If you ever get to the point of running your own business, you'll find that about half your time is not at the forge (if you are actually making a living at it).

 

[Frosty]

Welcome aboard Mel, glad to have you. I may be wrong but I think it sounds like you're asking about other metal skills to sample, maybe with an eye as a career, hobby or something to make you a more effective engineer.

Lots of good advice already so I'll not touch on business or making a living as a blacksmith. Instead I'll suggest some other forms of metal work you might like to explore. A good one you can do in a chair while people are watching TV or listening to music is Repousse and Chasing. The tools are basic, tin snips, file or two, a few small hammers of given shapes, a bowl of pitch or soft wax and a  block of soft wood you can use to hammer into on end. Repousse means pushed from behind, you use a larger round faced hammer to stretch a dent in a piece of soft sheet metal. I like to start folks off on Altoid tins, they're small and easy to work without warping out of shape. Cookie tins work nicely. Thin and soft. Once you have an area stretched out from the back side you flip it over, back with pitch, wax, etc. and use a variety of small hammers and blunt punches and chisels to "chase" details and finished features in from the front. 

Another metal technique is "tin smithing" which is forming sheet metal into vessels say bowls, cups, candle sticks, tea pots, etc. It shares techniques with repousse and chasing but is different. Tin is in reference to an early food safe durable metal used for cook ware ad eating utensils before stainless steel. The techniques can be applied with material specific differences to: silver, copper, gold, brass, titanium, steel, etc.

Another fun one is "twisted" wire or Viking knitting. I won't spend a lot more bandwidth describing these and I'm not familiar enough with Viking Knitting to describe it anyway, heck I may have the name wrong. Someone here will know though so I'm covered. 

Have you considered machine shop? How about metal spinning? Now THERE'S a seldom discussed or taught in school skill!

Is that what you were wondering?

Frosty The Lucky.

[anvil]

On 11/22/2018 at 3:11 PM, Marc1 said:

A search for "listing of blacksmiths" in France contains 4,579 names, with 66 in the region of the Pyrénées-Orientales.

Marc1 is right on. There is a market in all of Europe for historical restoration. A blacksmith friend from Germany once jokingly said we American Smith's are lucky, we are not shackled by history and are more free to be creative. 

As to your pathway to blacksmithing, you have already discovered it. Seek out, as Marc1 did, lists of shops throughout Europe and begin your own apprentice/journeymanship   by contacting them for work. Being young, be more concerned with work than wage, and you will be a very busy young man. Consider that you are paying for your education by working in your craft.

If you do this, you will also learn how to find and bid these types of jobs. You will also learn of the art history of our craft and not only the unique roll blacksmiths played in s very major art period, but the differences from country to country. And, most important, those who require restoration will learn of you. 

This is not just words. I did this for a few months in the late '80's in Germany. I spent a month smithing in Prague, and a few weeks with two brothers in Frankfort. I could have stayed as long as I wanted. They even gave me names of other shops to contact!

Good luck, you are at the threshold of a great adventure. All it takes is that first step.

[John B]

I don't know if this is still relevant, but investigate the tax situation in France with regard to being registered as a "Blacksmith", or an "Artist Blacksmith".

Apparently the Blacksmith is liable to more taxation and legislation then the Artist is.

This was brought home to me by a student who had gone to France and decided to set up alongside his partners work project as a Blacksmith. When he found out about the Tax situation, he came back and took a crash course in Artistic Blacksmithing, and then rebranded himself back in France.

[Mel Le Roux]

Thank you all for your responses
I'll make sure to have a lok at the links you sent. It was just what I was looking for and it wil help me to make my descision.

I think, as anvil and Marc1 that there is a blacksmith world in europe without the UK. Most of the information I find, like this forum for instance, is related to the english speaking world and that's what made me think that it was the only places blacksmithing was still going on.

I couldn't forge in paris because i was in a student appartement there and knew nobody with a house and a garden. I'm not even speaking about anvil, fire and all that stuff ^^.

I if choose to take a one week class, I'm afraid that it won't be across the atlantic sea. I have looking at a class in France for a while now and would rather pick that one, no direspect to american smiths but if I can avoid a plane ticket, i'll be easier for me to do it.

I hear what you said about the buisness side of the craft.

As for other metalwork techniques, although im interested in repousse, machining and other, I can't do everything  and I'm sure that some of you feel the same.
But I am aware that it exists and thats it's not impossible to get started. 

Your responses gave me ideas and options to consider, thank for encouraging me.

[Arthur210]

Bonne chance Mel. Juste pour ton information, il y a plusieurs forgerons qui peuvent échanger en français sur ce forum. Par courtoisie pour ceux qui ne maîtrisent pas la langue de Molière, la plupart des discussions se déroulent en anglais. Mais si tu as besoin d'aide spécifique et que tu ne sais pas comment l'exprimer en anglais, n'hésite pas à le demander en français!

Au plaisir,
Arthur

(Just letting Mel know that there are a number of French-speaking smith on the forum.)

 

Good luck Mel. Just for your information, there are several blacksmiths who can exchange in French on this forum. As a courtesy for those who do not speak the language of Molière, most of the discussions are conducted in English. But if you need specific help and you do not know how to express it in English, do not hesitate to ask in French! Looking forward,

[SLAG]

Arthur 210,

Bonne explication,

Bonne traduction.

Merci,

Monsieur SLAG.

[NelsonR]

I have no idea what their rules are, but here is a makerspace in Paris:

 https://www.letablisienne.com/en/ .

They have a shared workshop and may be open to the idea of a very small, portable forge (check out https://youtu.be/84PSz-VAg9U). Obviously something of that caliber would only let you work on the smallest projects, but it will help you get your foot in the door. In reality it may actually benefit you more to start this way, as these small projects will help teach you hammer control quickly, there is very little margin for error when working small projects.

 

Once again, I have no idea if they'd be ok with that, but its worth a shot, many are pretty chill and understanding about projects like that