George N. M. Posted November 10, 2018 Share Posted November 10, 2018 Dear All, I was recently invited to participate in a fairly high end art show by a friend who is a weaver and fiber artist. I had to decline because we are in the process of moving and my inventory is too low to participate anyway. I sent her photos of my booth and typical goods (brooches, neck rings, knives, pendants, kitchen ware, iron roses, Thors hammers, etc.) and she told me that it is a good thing that I wan't able to participate because multiples of a particular object would be discouraged. Everything should be one of a kind and fairly expensive, nothing priced at less than $100. This was a new concept for me and I wonder if this is what may be a practical difference between "Art" and "Craft." I had never thought that "Art" or beauty had to be unique and expensive. Personally, I would rather sell ten $10 items than one $100 item. That spreads my skill and talent to 10 times as many people and, assuming that my customers are happy to acquire whatever they purchase from me, I have made a ten times larger contribution to the happiness of the world. Any thoughts on this? In particular, whether it is better to sell a few expensive objects or a larger number of less expensive pieces. Also, how this is viewed in the "Arts" community. Was my friend in left field? Would I be somehow lowering the bar for other artists in other media by selling duplicate items at a lower price. My late wife told me that while I have a lot of talent and produce things of beauty I do not have enough odd personality quirks to really call myself an artist. So, I have always been proud to be a craftsman. "By hammer and hand all arts do stand." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John McPherson Posted November 10, 2018 Share Posted November 10, 2018 Are you familiar with the term "art snob"? No such term for crafts people exists, to my knowledge. Another central tenant is "Art serves no practical purpose." A craftsman never does anything without a purpose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted November 10, 2018 Share Posted November 10, 2018 Perhaps there is a reason the term "starving artist" is embedded in popular culture? Some "art" seems to be based on the ego of the artist rather than on what they produce. Some is not. I once was visiting a friend who had a painting on her wall of a field with 3 large round bales of hay in it. I asked her "its a depiction of the crucifiction isn't it?" It was done by one of her art professors who's religious background did not allow for "graven images" ... It's better to do what you like to do with all the power in you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arkie Posted November 10, 2018 Share Posted November 10, 2018 "Starving artist" sales are quite common...I have yet to encounter a "starving blacksmith" sale (of which many of us may qualify for, LOL). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Olson Posted November 10, 2018 Share Posted November 10, 2018 There are blacksmith artists who sell for top dollar and make a living at it. I know a guy who lives north of Duluth minnesota that does it. He does not do the same thing twice.But he's found the right clinental for his art. Is art a one time creation? Maybe Wayne Coe can chim in on this. I can make simple beautiful metal flowers that I can barely get 50 bucks for. They are art, but like George, Im not an artist but a craftsmen that makes stuff. Im going to a vender show tommorro and bringing everything I've made. Multipule flowers, bottle openers and split crosses. Am I an artist?? The people that like my stuff say I have talent. All my stuff, even though it's just a flower, no one is like the other. They all have there own character. They are 1 of a kind but I have many of them. Maybe there are different levels of art. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hans Richter Posted November 10, 2018 Share Posted November 10, 2018 Hi gents, please let me chime in. Most of us (including myself) are good technicians and craftsmen’s but poor businessmen’s. Part of the deal is however to sell yourself and your products. I’m was barely bad on this and known in our old Dutch village as the ‘cheap smith’ making good products. During this time they mentioned me in many local and national newspapers but I was to ‘stupid’ to take any advantage of it. However in this time with almost no responsibilities I enjoy life and did everything I wanted (traveling, sailing, ‘butterflying from one to the next beautiful flower’ and other crazy xxxx) how’s nobody can take away from me, and I will delightful remember this at the day I have to step before our great lord. So after founding a family I went back to a ‘conservative’ life as employee with a good pay check. Now I make highly expensive gifts and work pieces for nothing. In many cases individual items for own use or ‘give away’ or only to show to myself I can do it. Quit a luxury position if their wasn’t the drive to transfer my knowledge to other interested people. In Holland no problem where I was surrounded by many interested apprentices, in Belgium however its different they want/expect charging for everything and it is very onerous to penetrate existing networks. In Germany and Holland the mayor, the priest and the local blacksmith of a village are highly respected persons in Belgium probably not. Will have some other try’s, if they don’t turn out I will continue the status quo or move back to the Dutch/German roots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc1 Posted November 11, 2018 Share Posted November 11, 2018 20 hours ago, George N. M. said: I sent her photos of my booth and typical goods (brooches, neck rings, knives, pendants, kitchen ware, iron roses, Thors hammers, etc.) and she told me that it is a good thing that I wan't able to participate because multiples of a particular object would be discouraged. Everything should be one of a kind and fairly expensive, nothing priced at less than $100. This was a new concept for me and I wonder if this is what may be a practical difference between "Art" and "Craft." I had never thought that "Art" or beauty had to be unique and expensive. Personally, I would rather sell ten $10 items than one $100 item. That spreads my skill and talent to 10 times as many people and, assuming that my customers are happy to acquire whatever they purchase from me, I have made a ten times larger contribution to the happiness of the world. Hi George, Your post is interesting and I am surprised you didn't get more replies. The most likely difference you will come across when debating art versus craft, is that art is geared towards producing emotions in the viewer, and craft produces tangible objects that can be repeated and mostly fulfil a purpose. Sure not a perfect explanation but it agrees with those who think art is vane, useless and an expression of the author's ego. I don't agree with that and think those are sour grapes thoughts however art, if it needs to be defined, needs to produce an emotion in the viewer I agree with you that art does not need to be unique or expensive to be art, but in the next sentence you say that you made a bigger contribution by selling a larger number and therefore producing more happy people ... or words to that effect. That may be so and good for you, but ... art is not defined by making people happy, and not by how many people it makes happy. A few different concepts there. Then we have the issue of selling your product, be it art or craft does not matter, there are reasons that make a person buy art, and different reasons that push someone to buy craft. Marketing has a lot to do with it too. I suppose that we could write pages on the topic, but let me tell you a personal experience. Across from my place used to live a lady painter. She lived in the area for 30 years, was known as the local artist, manned the local art gallery for decades and sold her paintings there for an average of $100 to $150 for medium size canvas. She started to get older and her kids that lived 400 km away, told her to move closer. She finally decided to go, moved her studio and kept on painting the same style and size of painting she sold before. With one difference ... because she is no longer young and energetic, she decided to price her paintings at $1000 to $1500. Take it or leave it she thought. Less work more pay. Last time I spoke to her she is selling a painting a week at $1000+ ... Typically this can not be reproduced with craft. As much as things can be a thing of beauty, and I have seen some of the knife photographs by some of the members here that I would put in a frame and certainly not use to cut stake, there is a limit for people to pay for a knife or a fire minding set, a gate or a bottle opener. Not because they are menial objects but because they are object and not "art" May be artistic, sure ... anyway, you can see the conundrum. As for the artist personality, needing to be weird ... I don't know that such can be a rule of thumb. More a pose, but ... generalisations are not usually very useful. Art should comfort the disturbed and disturb the comfortable Another one ... Life beats down and crushes the soul and art reminds you that you have one. Stella Adler Some more ... You can't teach the poetry but you can teach the craft. David Hockney And finally ... We are all apprentices in a craft where no one ever becomes a master. Ernest Hemingway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psacustomcreations Posted November 11, 2018 Share Posted November 11, 2018 While I am new at smithing, I have been selling my metal art online, at craft shows, and art shows for about 6 years. Each of the three venues are different and can command completely different prices for the same item. I will frequently change my prices based on the type of show I am at. I consider myself to be in the middle stages of shifting from crafts to art. The post above by Marc1 has many points I was going to address, so I will also add a few more thoughts and some of my experiences. What is your time worth and how to price items are difficult to answer questions for many artists. I try to make one off items art items but will also have a few lower priced craft items, where I may have multiples of that same item, as well in my booth. The cheapest item is about $20, the average price for other items is $150 or so and I also had items in the booth for $2,500. I have a good friend that also does metal art and he has plenty of items that are $20, an average of $100, and his most expensive item rarely goes over $300. At the end of each day we tell each other how much we made. It is common for us to have a similar total amount of sales, say $800, but where I sold 8 items, he sold 20. Who is more successful? I would say the one that spent less time in total. If I make a scrap metal sculpture that took 2 hours to make, cost $10 in materials and paint, but sold it for $150 while he sold 4 items that took 3 hours to make, cost $20 in materials and paint, and a total of $160 in sales, I like to think I came out ahead. I have a spreadsheet where I keep track of all my expenses and sales. I know how many of each type of item I have sold and the average selling price for each. If you are going to treat this as a hobby, you may think you don't need this, if you are serious about this as a business, you are crazy not to know this. Back to the art versus crafts. This year I attended a fine art show. The first thing I did was raise the price of the items in my booth. I had another metal artist who was a true craftsman and artists, tell me I had some high quality items, but my prices are still too low. I had raised the price of one of my larger pieces from $2,000 to $2,500. Two older couples walked by and looked at it and told me how much they liked it. A few hours later, one husband showed up and said that piece was killing him and he thought about it the whole time they were eating lunch.This goes back to Marc point about art creating a reaction. The husband purchased that piece without even asking about a discount or discussing the price. When I dropped it off, the new owner showed me his house that was fill of fine art. I was honored to have one of my pieces mixed in with that group. Attendees at art shows want to feel as if they own an exclusive piece. If they see that there are multiples of the same piece, no matter how good it looks, it comes across as mass produced and lost its uniqueness. I have made several items that are very similar, but each will have a bit of a twist. I will then only bring one of those items to a show and once that sells, grab the next one for another show. When you are trying to sell at shows, do you offer discounts? I have a 10% premium built into my prices so that if I have to offer that to make a sale, I will. It is common for people not to ask for the discount. In regards to art personalities versus "normal", that is also sometimes the experience the customer desires. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockstar.esq Posted November 12, 2018 Share Posted November 12, 2018 Recently I've been involved with a lot of projects that design professionals referred to as "modern", "industrial", or "clean". By "modern" they're facetiously referring to cherry-picked stuff that was new in the 1900's. "Industrial" is often a disingenuous term because the aesthetic shares little with actual industrial facilities. "Clean" just means rectilinear without ornamentation, symmetry, or anything suggestive of a human face. My point is that words have an entirely different meaning to the people who feel they're at the leading edge of a trend. They're not looking for something with a traditional meaning, they're looking to apply traditional terms of prestige to an anachronism. It's important to understand that many of these people, have a real hostility towards history and tradition. For these people, it's only a valuable "craft" in the context of an anachronistic and/or counter-culture device. Effective marketing has to shoot the gap just right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc1 Posted November 12, 2018 Share Posted November 12, 2018 So true! ... reminds me of my architect brother who favours the industrial look just because of his severe left leaning ideas that declare all art as decadent and superfluous. But ... by definition even something built to seem devoid of any artistic value, can be considered artistic just because it does have the effect of producing emotions in those who like it. Perhaps the most famous object in such style is the Eiffel tower. Then ... if you consider who decides the value of object of art, and how they are valued, all bets are off. I would like to be a fly on the wall of a museum 500 years from now, that clean and restore Das' lovely sculptures, and team up to interpret the author's message and meanings ... perhaps an attempt at inducing an industrial look into nature? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockstar.esq Posted November 12, 2018 Share Posted November 12, 2018 Marc1, It works in other poli-sci directions as well. "Shabby Chic" and "Vintage" are very popular in certain groups. Every finish has a fabricated/calibrated level of "distress", and only certain fairly bland items are aesthetically allowed. It's particularly popular at local antique markets where the difference between old, and faux-old is pretty stark. There's one asking $25 for a harbor freight hand saw that was spray-painted a rusty brown! Generally speaking, the "Shabby Chic" people are pretty hostile to actual antiques. Somehow a "Farm house table" is a treasured collectible, but the Victorian hutch isn't acceptable until the glass panes are replaced with chicken wire and the original finish is slathered with milk paint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc1 Posted November 12, 2018 Share Posted November 12, 2018 Ha ha, all whilst wearing artificially aged blue jeans Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwistedCustoms Posted November 12, 2018 Share Posted November 12, 2018 I love a question with no clearly defined answer! Here are a few things to consider about objects outside the clearly defined categories such as paintings and sculpture. objet de'art - Objects of practical function with the highest level of fit, finish and ornamentation where the overall artistic expression overwhelms any practical application. In the knife and sword world in particular we sometimes say a piece is "too pretty to use" objet de'vertu - Purely decorative pieces of the finest materials, facture, design, construction and finish with no practical application or intended use other than to inspire the beholder. Those two terms are agreed upon and used by museums and collectors around the world. What follows is only my humble opinion! I have seen objects that fit into both of those categories which incorporate forged elements. Very few forged objects, with the exception of sculpture, qualify for those categories without being further refined and embellished with other skills and materials not particular to the blacksmith. Graving, grinding, polishing or any process of reduction whereby the piece is drastically altered from its "as forged state". Plating, gilding, enamel work, the addition of cut and polished stones, painting, filigree and limitless other skills and trades can be incorporated into these pieces. On the other side of that coin is the notion that any hand crafted object, no matter how humble or utilitarian, offers an outlet for artistic expression. I wouldn't consider a swage forged acorn finial to be a work of art in and of itself, but such additions can harmonize and work together to elevate on object as simple as a pair of fire tongs to something more than, "just" fire tongs. I believe that every hand made object has a "soul" of sorts, some small part of it's creator. As to which is better, selling ten items for a set price versus one item for ten times that amount? The markets you sell in will tell you which is more lucrative. If it's even money then the question becomes, which do you prefer to forge? As to whether or not your work is "art". Probably. Does it belong in a gallery or will it do well at an art show? Not necessarily. Spend some time at the art show in question and think about the level of your current work compared to what you see there. Get a feel for the skill level and pricing of the various artists who are offering their work and decide if it's something you want to shoot for the next time around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George N. M. Posted November 12, 2018 Author Share Posted November 12, 2018 This has been a very interesting thread and has brought up a number of things that I am going to have to consider. I have always priced my items by the time I put into them. I figure that all I really have to sell is my time and skill. For years I have figured my shop time at $50-60/hour (maybe it is time to give myself a raise). If an item takes me half an hour to produce I price it at $30 or so. I'm not sure that I am comfortable increasing my prices by a factor of 2, 3, 4, or 5 just because a certain set of customers can or are wiling to pay that amount. This seems to resemble the communist adage of "from each according to their ability" (to pay). Is my time any more valuable to a wealthy person than it is to a person of more modest means? I am going to have to think about the idea that craft has a practical function while art does not. A safety pin will hold a garment together as well as any brooch. Does that make all brooches art? I'm not sure that I am comfortable with the idea that art excites an emotion. Disgust and revulsion are emotions as valid delight and a sense of beauty. Maybe I am just not sophisticated enough but I have always thought that art had something to do with beauty and is pleasing to the eye. That said, I have seen plenty of art that I would not want to see every morning when I get up. There is plenty of ugly in this bad old world and if I can produce something to counteract that in some small way that is a worthy goal. Also, who is going to put down good money for something that excites negative emotions in themselves or others unless they are going for some sort of shock value? Maybe, in an ideal world we would just all trade time. For an attorney who charges $150/hour for his time my half hour object would cost $75 but for a teacher who makes $20 it is $10. I once knew a judge who set fines that way. A person with a well paying job would pay a higher fine for the same offense as a person with a less well paying position. I'm still unsure of how I would lower the bar for other artists who are selling different objects in different mediums by selling at an average lower price. The point is well taken re one unique object versus multiples of nearly identical objects. "By hammer and hand all arts do stand." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc1 Posted November 12, 2018 Share Posted November 12, 2018 Some interesting thoughts there George. 1 hour ago, George N. M. said: I have always priced my items by the time I put into them. I figure that all I really have to sell is my time and skill. That is how you price an industrial item in a factory. Prime material + cost of machinery and other expenses required + labour. Maybe you need to redefine what you are selling. 1 hour ago, George N. M. said: I'm not sure that I am comfortable increasing my prices by a factor of 2, 3, 4, or 5 just because a certain set of customers can or are willing to pay that amount. This seems to resemble the communist adage of "from each according to their ability" (to pay). Is my time any more valuable to a wealthy person than it is to a person of more modest means? When I hate the "progressive" system of taxation where I pay a higher percentage because I have more, rather than everyone paying the same percentage, free market is the perfect area to exercise that sort of concept. Every manufacturer that sells in different markets and countries needs to adjust his prices according to the acquisition power of the average punter. It is the same product but different buyers value it differently. No point being dogmatic here. The definition of price as the intersection of the supply and demand curve is a good indication. Price is not real value, but percieved value. it is how much a person is prepared to pay according to the choices offered to him. And last but not least, when it is difficult to define art vs craft in a sentence, clearly someone making a bottle opener has in mind producing something to open a bottle. A secondary thought may be to make it real nice or unique, but it still a bottle opener. A painter or a sculptor that make something, have the idea to put on canvas or stone their own emotions and transmit them in that way to others. Sure they also can be seen as a practical way to decorate a wall or a garden, but the main aim is something less practical. Emotions are emotions, good or bad. I doubt I would like to own Munch's "The scream" and hang it on a wall ... come to think of it it may be a good investment, but that is another story. It is clearly art and will move good or bad emotions according to who looks at it. I severely dislike it ... sold in 2012 for a cool 120,000,000 The lines are blurred many times ... take a gargoyle for example. Is it art or craft? Did the author have it's practical function in mind, that is to channel rain water, rather than to produce an emotion in the viewer? I don't know, never made a gargoyle before ... come to think of it, I may just make one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George N. M. Posted November 12, 2018 Author Share Posted November 12, 2018 The mention of a gargoyle reminds me of a story of a medieval craftsman who was carving a statute for placement high in a cathedral. He was asked why he was finishing the back of the statue, which would never be seen, as finely as the front. He replied, "God would know and I would know." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc1 Posted November 12, 2018 Share Posted November 12, 2018 That is a good story. In Japan it is custom to paint or decorate in some way the back of a wardrobe that sits against the wall. As for art vs craft ... what is music? Is it art/ Most people would agree it is. Yet is can serve a very practical purpose to attract customers, to induce people to gamble more, to get couple to dance etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockstar.esq Posted November 12, 2018 Share Posted November 12, 2018 George, I think your debate about emotion is compelling. I read a very interesting article about Le Corbusier, Mies Van der Rohe and other modern architects that suggested that post traumatic stress as well as Autism played a large role in their aesthetic. I really want to stress that this wasn't about picking on people who like modernism. The article suggested that people unconsciously "identify" with things that resemble faces. for example, symmetrical windows on either side of a doorway suggest eyes and a nose. For people with Autism, the "faces" create anxiety because they overstimulate them. His designs were "cleaned" of extra stimulus. To this day, a "clean" design means roughly the same thing. Mies Van der Rohe suffered heavily from PTSD. He designed sight-lines in his homes like military "pill boxes" to minimize his exposure from outside while still permitting overwatch. The interesting thing to me, is how the motivations of the architects/artists are so different from their acolytes. If Van der Rohes designs were Art trying to protect him from the world, then the Brutalism that followed was Art trying to control the people. Craft versus art isn't a semantic argument when it ends in the picking of winners and losers. Personally, I'm ready for marketing types to move on from the pretentious "craft" nonsense. Nobody cares how hard it is to become a journeyman, so why are we impressed with meaningless titles like "artisan"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psacustomcreations Posted November 12, 2018 Share Posted November 12, 2018 A story I heard, may or may not be true, goes along the lines of this. Picasso was sitting a cafe doodling on a napkin. When he got up to leave he crumbled up the napkin and was going to throw it away. Another customer asked if she could have the napkin. Picasso replied, "Sure, for $5,000." The customer gasped and said, "But it only took you 5 minutes and you were going to throw it away." Picasso told her, "It took me 40 years to learn how to do this in 5 minutes, plus I am Picasso." The point is that if you only charge for the time you invested, you may be short changing yourself for the years it took to learn how to do that plus the cost of the tools and equipment to do the job. If your current shop rate takes all that into account and you are comfortable charging shop rate continue to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc1 Posted November 12, 2018 Share Posted November 12, 2018 13 minutes ago, rockstar.esq said: I read a very interesting article about Le Corbusier, Mies Van der Rohe and other modern architects that suggested that post traumatic stress as well as Autism played a large role in their aesthetic Absolutely. Emotions play a grand role in the artist production. The mood or otherwise emotions or even emotional imbalance or disturbance produces different kinds of art. Bach was a family man well recognised and paid and his music shows exactly that. Compare with tango music or blues, screaming for help from deeply depressed artist. There are many examples of artist who could only paint if drunk. I remember my most prolific times at writing were when I was in emotional turmoil. Once back on track the muse was gone. Ergo ... art is the expression of emotions and an attempt at others to see or feel it. Craft has little relation with that but I agree that it has nothing to do with what is "better" if art or craft, but rather what is the purpose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daswulf Posted November 13, 2018 Share Posted November 13, 2018 Wow, lots of good info and ideas in this to bounce around in my little brain. I stood back seeing what others had to say before saying anything. I'm not trained in art, only took small art classes in highschool and barely remember a lot from them, so I let other more knowledgeable people speak first. psa, thanks for some useful insight. I have only sold at a few shows and I know one big one in my area that I have been debating trying to get into is very strict on what types of items you can sell. As far as getting accepted in different "catagories". In what I make I often find it hard to classify it in one group, and with no real art lingo knowledge I usually stick to the kind of shows that allow me to sell the wide variety of different items I make. But I Need to start digging deeper into those "specialized" "Art" shows since that is where the people will be possibly be more willing to purchase my larger more expensive pieces. I do sort of make smaller similar pieces like the dragonflies and spiders or scorpions, but they are all a little different. I tend to see fine craftsmanship as an art. I wont argue over what someone sees as arts, crafts, or the everyday. When it comes to art, to each their own. Looking at art selling websites ( mainly looking at sculpture to try to figure out where I might even fit in or to possibly find a place to sell) I am all over the place with thoughts. Some is amazing, and then there is a lot I just have to scratch my head and wonder how it really sold for what they did or how they are asking what they are, or even, "what is it".... Marc, if anyone 500 years from now is cleaning up one of my pieces for a museum I'd be blown away.. they will probably say what I hear sometimes. "Man, you have too much time on your hands." Haha that's incorrect. It's a labor of love, late nights and sometimes blood sweat and tears. It has also cost me a lot of time, money and some relationships along the way. Thats one of the reasons I absolutely Love watching peoples faces while looking at my work when I'm out at a show. Sometimes I see confusion, disinterest, or interest. It's when you see something spark in them and a big smile comes over their face or even sort of astonishment in seeing something, thats when I feel like an artist. Those that want something I've made enough to pay me their hard earned money to own, and love it is purely an honor and the highest praise. All the kind words and repeat business is truely heartwarming when I'm just making some silly things that I envision in bits and pieces of otherwise "junk", scrap, plain steel, or an ordinary object. Don't think you Have to fit in to sell at a show. Heck, I've sold at the fleamarket before with people saying " why are you wasting your time here?" and was informed of other shows that they thought I could to great at. There are great people everywhere, don't be affraid to set up and see how it goes. You might get a lead on another show or ideas to look into. Also, a large number of people I have met highly respect hand made/forged stuff by local people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psacustomcreations Posted November 13, 2018 Share Posted November 13, 2018 Das, I do about 15 shows a year within about a 125 mile radius of where I live. I kind of draw the line at a 2 hour drive. I have a trailer I keep loaded with my items. Since it is all metal art, I have weighed it before and know that at a small show, I am moving about 1000-1200 pounds in and out of the trailer. At a larger show, it may be closer to 2000 pounds. My bigger bells will frequently weigh 175 to 225 pounds. I offer free delivery on items like that if they are within a short drive of the venue. I normally only do outside shows. This puts me at the mercy of the weather, but I can usually drive my truck and trailer pretty close to my spot. I also arrive very early so I don't have to deal with traffic in the venue or middle of the road. Once you start attending shows, talk to other vendors. I have created a list of all the shows I have attended and make notes of how I did, whether I will keep coming back or whether I will not return. I email that list to other vendors and we share information on a regular basis. Some I share with are selling completely different product lines so if they do well, it does not mean I will do well. You will still hear about shows you may never have heard of before. Booth photos and item photos will make or break whether you are allowed to attend. Try to have a cohesive and clean booth photo for submission. This area has been my downfall before since I make a variety of items like you. It can be hard to squeeze everything in for a show. For the submission photo, remove some of the excess and have neat display. Clean photos of your items showing details and the level of craftsmanship are also important. Do not be afraid to enter juried events. They usually want higher quality items and may have higher entrance fees but you have the chance to win awards. I have won Best in Show a couple of times because my items are unique like yours. If you are using re-purposed or recycled material, highlight that to the judge and on your entrance form. If you are using re-purposed items, don't be surprised if people offer to give you material. I have received hundreds of pounds of material for free just from attendees. I have also offered a slight discount if they offer me material. People seem willing to give away their items or scrap if they know it will be used again. Engage your customers and try to bring them into the booth or talk about the item. If they appear interested in a particular item, talk to them about how it may look in that spot in their home. One vendor I know makes items out of wine barrels, He makes really nice items and has won awards but just sits next to his cash box. If a customer comes in the booth, he sits there until they say they want to buy something . Pat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daswulf Posted November 13, 2018 Share Posted November 13, 2018 Pat, more great and insightful info. Thank you. Some I have experienced. The best show I did this year was jurried this year wheras last year was first come first served, which I didnt get in. This summer I had a chance and got accepted. It was great. This fall I got accepted again and it was my best show yet and depleated my stock. (Obviously in a great way.) I'm fairly socially awkward but I try, and if conversation starts I can engage. I try to be inviting and even encourage interested people to pick up the pieces or touch them and the ones that have spring motion, try to show that. My last and first real outdoor show was a disaster with the cold and rain. I learned a Lot and still made a little profit. Over the winter I'll be purchasing a Good canopy and a different type of table, if not making a few pedestals. Many good ideas came out of my misery. Also that that show was completely disorganized and it would take a miracle for me to go back there again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George N. M. Posted November 13, 2018 Author Share Posted November 13, 2018 This thread is drifting a bit but I think that the interaction between the smith as a merchant and the potential customer is important. For me, the social interaction is an important part of what I get out of a show. It isn't just about the money. But, I'm fairly gregarious and social and like the interaction and conversation. I like educating the folk about the craft. I'd be lying if I didn't say that it is an ego stroke when people compliment my work or are amazed when I answer in the affirmative that, yes, I made everything here. That said, there are times when there is some sort of connection between a particular person and a particular item. There have been times when someone has come back several times to visit a particular item. You can see they really, really want the item. Often, they cannot afford what I am asking for it. And sometimes I can sense that the item just should be with them. So, I'll take what ever they can afford to give me. On occasion, I have just given it away to them. Good karma and cast bread upon the waters. I have traded my time for someone else's pleasure and I have never felt short changed. Also, I think it important to have a prepared "patter". This is particularly important for folk who have a hard time ad libbing. I could explain what a penannular brooch is and how it works in my sleep. I've probably recited it thousands of times. Something I have used at SCA or Celtic events to call people over to my booth is "I have bright shiny things and sharp pokey things!" Much of my trade seems to be women buying gifts for their men folk. I encourage that with "Anyone who says it is hard to shop for men has not shopped at my booth." Maybe at the end of the day it doesn't matter too much if it is craft or art. If you have connected an object and a person and they have traded you their money for your time and skill it is all good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JW513 Posted November 17, 2018 Share Posted November 17, 2018 On 11/12/2018 at 4:18 PM, George N. M. said: This has been a very interesting thread and has brought up a number of things that I am going to have to consider. On paper that sounds good. But your time is your time. The time, it took you make an item is the same amount of time, whether your making it for a lawyer, doctor, or hobo... Its okay to give some people a break once in awhile, but your time is your time....The lawyer/doctor, they might have friends who are interested in having you make something which equals more $$$$ for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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