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Looking for advice on my very first gas forge


MBForge

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Hi all,

Had a rather unexpected gift "on its way" given to me for my birthday this year: a dual valve Forgemaster (Blacksmith model). I am not a farrier by trade or professional by any means; this has strictly been a hobby to date so you can imagine how completely floored I was. Well, It's been sitting on my desk assembled for over a month now, still brand new. Quite frankly, it just feels too "rich" (or nice) that I almost don't want to fire it up. I'm forcing myself to take it out this weekend :)

Anyways, I've already read through the article Can Your Forge Take The Heat several times as I really don't want to mess things up, this being my very first gas forge and all. I'm a little concerned about the outside deteriorating as shown in the header image of that article: is that normal? Besides the standard operating procedures and the precautions outlined in this article, is there anything else I should be aware of?

Also, if someone has this same forge, I would especially appreciate a brief how-to video demonstrating proper operation and forging with it.

Thanks!

IMG_5433.thumb.JPG.72c57f6bbde8743432bd23536339c16c.JPG

 

Additional resources (mostly reference list for myself):

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Welcome aboard Mb, glad to have you. If you put your general location in the header you might be surprised how many of the gang live within visiting distance. 

The only thing I'd do before using is maybe kiln wash it to preserve the liner. I don't know what Forgemaster lines them with and didn't look them up online. They have a pretty complete website.

General first firing instructions run like so. Make sure there's no foreign debris in it: plastic, cardboard, tape, etc. Make sure propane hoses to the burners are properly tightened. (Do NOT reef on them! tight is only a few ft lbs torque.) Hook it up to a fresh tank of propane 20 lbs. MINIMUM. Regulator to the tank just snug, if you put a mighty crank with a wrench it will damage the seats and you'll find yourself having to turn harder and harder to keep it from leaking, these are precision connections do NOT force them. This is also true for the tank valve do NOT crank hard on it to turn it off you'll cause it to leak. 

With everything hooked up and the forge on a secure stable stand. A table with a sheet of cement backer board on spacers works a treat, you can make a custom stand later. I don't know if the gas supply lines to the burners have 1/4 turn ball valves, if so make sure the handles are cross ways to the line, this is the OFF position. Open the tank valve and if there is a valve observe to see the pressure come up.

Now it's primed, there is gas pressure to the shut off valves. Crumple a LITTLE paper, light it and toss it in the forge (Door open) and slowly open ONE of the shut off valves, open is with the handle in line with the hose. Don't get carried away and take forever to open it just don't slam it open.

It should woof and start burning, open the other valve if you want to use both burners. I HOPE I didn't have to tell you not to stand directly in front of the door:o . . . Did I?

Once the forge is up to working temp folk will often shut off one burner to save on propane. 

Check in the Forges 101 thread for explanations of kiln washes and why they might be a good idea for your forge. Un-rigidized and washed refractory blanket is a breathing hazard, kiln washing takes care of that little bugaboo. 

Frosty The Lucky.

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Fired up the gas forge yesterday and had a blast! Lot more fun (and efficient, fire management-wise) than I anticipated.

The first pair of tongs I ever made was months ago out of rebar after watching a YouTube video. Didn't quite come out right and not suitable for what I needed. This pair is almost done and coming along much better:

1830174185_ScreenShot2018-11-11at2_25_30PM.png.7d05581cf00f58a6bdf274607a5e077e.png

 

I do have some concerns, however, about some heat escape out the top.

There seem to be these gaps in the top where the burners are welded to:

1742369849_ScreenShot2018-11-11at2_29_08PM.png.ce64034f44d1be4c2799c5f8bb7150a7.png

...the paint got burned off the left side:

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...and also started to burn the spark plug on the right side:

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I kept it about 12 PSI and kept the front door closed the entire time, per the operating instructions. Am I missing something here, or is this normal?

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2 minutes ago, Frosty said:

Don't close the door all the way. The burners will burn better and internal pressure won't blow flames out the seams.

Frosty The Lucky.

I wondered about that and perhaps hoped the excess heat would have sufficient escaped out the side holes. I will certainly try that next time (maybe tomorrow).

Any tips on possibly restoring the paint (what kind of paint is this, anyways)?

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Let us know please. I believe that's Hammerite high temp or perhaps one of the Krylon high temp paints. 

A well insulated forge only needs high temp paint around the doors, the rest of the body should stay almost touch it cool.

They're nice forges, a good choice.

Frosty The Lucky.

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2 minutes ago, Frosty said:

Let us know please. I believe that's Hammerite high temp or perhaps one of the Krylon high temp paints. 

A well insulated forge only needs high temp paint around the doors, the rest of the body should stay almost touch it cool.

They're nice forges, a good choice.

Frosty The Lucky.

Thanks, and yes, I will certainly make it a point to update this thread with my results. I've also emailed the company to see what they say.

Trying to be careful with this forge because the replacement lining kit itself runs around $140.

By the way, the thing weighs some 85 lb. and is a bit much for me to be carrying in and out of my storage area (don't have a workshop, unfortunately). I do have a rain-resistant canvas tarp to help keep frost off of it (as in last night), but wonder if that will sufficiently protect it from the elements if I wanted to just leave it outside.

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I'm not a fan of tarps to keep the weather off things that absorb moisture like forge liners. Make a stand with a couple wheels so you can tip it and wheel it under cover AFTER it's COOLED!

DARNED got called away for a while. Stairs. DRATS.

Maybe one of those odd never have to lift it up a step again, rotating triple wheel had truck things might work? Okay, I guessed at terms and my Yahoo fu came through! :) "Triple wheel hand cart," seems to be the general term. Here're some pics, the one top row left is what I was thinking of though Rubbermaid makes the ones I've been seeing on TV.

https://images.search.yahoo.com/search/images;_ylt=Awr9Jh2btOhbMMAAjkJXNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTEycTRtaDRhBGNvbG8DZ3ExBHBvcwMxBHZ0aWQDQjU3MDFfMQRzZWMDc2M-?p=Triple+wheel+hand+cart&fr=crmas

Frosty The Lucky.

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On ‎11‎/‎11‎/‎2018 at 6:04 PM, Frosty said:

I'm not a fan of tarps to keep the weather off things that absorb moisture like forge liners. Make a stand with a couple wheels so you can tip it and wheel it under cover AFTER it's COOLED!

Adding to my winter project list: rail system for hauling 85 lb. forge up a set of stairs. :)

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From the company:

"From the pictures I would guess that your flame was also burning inside of your tube, causing it to burn off. You need to make sure that on start up you open the valve a good 2 times at igniting. This makes sure the gas is blowing through the burner verses burning inside of it."

Guess I'll try that as well.

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  • 4 weeks later...

Winter is coming. Any concerns using the propane gas forge outdoors in 30°F weather? :)

Have an air mover I'm considering setting up for additional circulation since the last time it seemed there were caramel-like odors that seemed to just linger in the air.

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I run my forge in 0°F once and again.  Both things ThomasPowers advised, hold true for me.  I have a smaller forge so tanks freezing isn't as big an issue but I certainly tend to hang out in the area I can be warmed by the forge.  Another thing you have to deal with is a cold anvil robbing your metal of it's heat.  Also, people tend to tighten up the area around them to retain some of the forges heat but you always have to be thinking about carbon monoxide.  It's easy to forget/overlook and it kills.  It sounds like you are working in a more open area though.  Another thing I was warned of is that the forge linings like to absorb moisture, if the forge has not been lit in a while, be gentle/cautious on start up.  In my case, I have a cast inner lining which can trap steam and possibly break up.  If you see steam or hear anything weird, go very slow. The last thing I can think of, your air mover may cause some problems.  If that draft goes through your forge in any way, it might push a lot of your heat right out the doors.  

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44 minutes ago, ThomasPowers said:

You have more issues with your tank freezing up and you tend to root in the area where you get the most IR from the forge.

"Root" as in occupying that space myself or the metal I'm working?

I do have a Bernzomatic TS8000 I plan to heat my small anvil surface area with and can probably keep a heated railroad spike in an adjacent hole near the top.

The area itself is pretty open, I don't plan on hanging out near the forge to stay warm as it's nearby my indoor workroom with a heater in it I can duck into. The blower is a B-Air VP-20 that will be set up near where I work to draw stagnant air in and push it away from the work area. It shouldn't affect the heat in the forge.

20 minutes ago, AnotherCurtis said:

I run my forge in 0°F once and again.  Both things ThomasPowers advised, hold true for me.  I have a smaller forge so tanks freezing isn't as big an issue ... Another thing I was warned of is that the forge linings like to absorb moisture, if the forge has not been lit in a while, be gentle/cautious on start up.  In my case, I have a cast inner lining which can trap steam and possibly break up.  If you see steam or hear anything weird, go very slow.

Good to know.

Also, I have a 40lb. tank so hopefully it won't freeze up too quickly either.

Thanks guys for your input. Always appreciated!

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There have been a number of threads on cold weather forging here over the last decade+ you may want to review them.

When I lived in an area with cold winters I found a scrap piece of plywood to stand on made a great difference in how warm my feet were.  Root as you prefer to stand where the heat radiating from the forge opening hits you.  It can lead to spending too much time looking into the forge.

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  • 5 weeks later...
On 11/7/2018 at 1:19 AM, Frosty said:

Check in the Forges 101 thread for explanations of kiln washes and why they might be a good idea for your forge. Un-rigidized and washed refractory blanket is a breathing hazard, kiln washing takes care of that little bugaboo. 

Been digging around in that thread for a little while and some other threads on kiln wash. Just to be clear, if I can fork over the $100 for some zirconia-containing wash (ITC-100), it would be worth the investment in preventative maintenance?

Also, are we talking about coating the entire thing, or just the floor? And how much? The liner in this thing is hearth pad/brick, except for the door: that's some kind of insulation blanket.

Hoping to fire up the forge again soon, but can't recall being able to get the stock I was using up to a yellow heat; mostly bright orange. I may try increasing the PSI next time (12 PSI was factory recommended default for starting out) but am wondering if the kiln wash may also yield any insulation/re-radiating benefits to contribute to this as well.

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The general consensus on here these days is that ITC 100 is not worth the cost nor does it perform as well as a couple other options.  Wayne Coe is a member here who sells small quantities of forge supplies.  Plistex and Matrikote are a couple options that are better bangs for the buck than ITC 100.

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 11/11/2018 at 2:44 PM, Frosty said:

Don't close the door all the way. The burners will burn better and internal pressure won't blow flames out the seams.

Frosty The Lucky.

Following this advice the other day, I did crack the door open for the first few heats only to find the paint in the surrounding areas in the front were being consumed away as well around the sides, top, and the door handle, all of which I'm really not too happy about. The only "relief" for the forge's exterior paint I could find was in leaving the front door wide open, which I presume didn't make for very efficient forging.

(Please see attached photos)

I'm going to be sending these pictures to the manufacturer as well for their opinion, but I would really love to know very simply at this point: is this sort of wear normal for commercial gas forges like this? Just a bit disheartening seeing this kind of exterior wear on a very expensive gas forge that was just given to me brand new and I feel really bad that it looks like this after two sessions.

Appreciate your input. Thanks!

IMG_6243.jpg

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IMG_6246.jpg

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Any metal close to the door will get HOT. Even high heat paint or powder coating will suffer and eventually burn off. This is normal for any propane forge that's been painted near the doors. The real problem is warping but yours is well designed to compensate for normal warpage. The doors have enough room to move and still close reasonably tightly.

About a forge looking good. It's a piece of equipment designed to contain an extreme (2,500 f.+) environment not look pretty. It's a tool, all the artistry is invested in it working well rather than looks. 

I'm a form follows function guy a good tool looks good in my eye BECAUSE it's a GOOD tool. A pretty tool that doesn't work well doesn't look worth picking up. That's just me, I don't dictate taste. Mom my maternal Grandmother used to say, "To each his own said the old lady as she kissed the cow."

I'm also not saying tools shouldn't be well kept, they should be cleaned, repaired as needed, dressed and put away. Says the guy who has multiple copies of lots of tools because I can't remember where I put them. <sigh>

Anyway, there's nothing wrong with your forge, I don't know why they put "Hammerite"  on it, the stuff isn't very heat resistant. Once it burns off I suggest Muffler paint or one of the other HIGH temp paints. No matter how that works out, USE IT, that's what it was designed for and does well. I've never heard a bad word about how they function.

Frosty The Lucky.

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