First gas forge

[Ulfhedinn]

Very new to metal working so please guide me if this sounds stupid or I sound like I have no clue what I'm talking about (this is the case, this is all very very foreign to me)

 

I welded a metal box 9x12x15

Tomorrow when I get all the lining stuff I will begin the following.

two one inch layers of inswool

coat with Instuff Ceramic-Fiber Rigidizer

add a layer of Satanite Refractory Mortar

coat with ITC-100 Refractory Coating

then a layer of bubble alumina for the floor.  

when all is done I plan on 5x8x15 for a chamber of 600 cubic inches.  I made two of these burners https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BjqA4VQMpiM

My main question I am trying to answer is how "deep" do I mount the burners?  The end where the flame comes out should that be mounted flush with the insulation at the chamber or do I mount it flush to the metal frame and the flame pass through a hole drilled in the insulation.  Do I coat the holes in the inswool with all the coatings?

 

[Ulfhedinn]

  

 

So I will mount the flange 1in or so into the case, halfway into the liner, do I coat the holes with everything or just a Rigidizer?  Want to make sure there is no way for the fibers to kill me

 

Also I did use yellow tape on all my threads for the burners.  Frosty said this is dangerous?  Isn't that what its for though? 

[Buzzkill]

The tape just needs to be rated for propane gas regardless of the color.  Tape that is not rated for propane can degrade in use and result in leaks.

I always coat the area around the holes for the burner with refractory (Kastolite 30 in my case).  That makes sure the fibers from the blanket are sealed in and also provides some protection against mechanical damage when you are mounting and/or adjusting your burners.

[Ulfhedinn]

Thank you for your response.  The thread tape I used says "yellow gasoline".  Is that the correct stuff or is there special stuff for propane?  

[Irondragon ForgeClay Works]

Welcome to IFI... I always suggest this thread to get the best out of the forum.

https://www.iforgeiron.com/topic/53873-read-this-first/

Yellow gasoline tape is the wrong type, use only tape rated for propane.

[Paragon]

I think I read in one of the threads to coat each later of wool with stabilizer separately.  Someone with more experience can chime in on that if it is actually necessary.

Flare should be inset like you are planning.  You do not want it into the main interior area.  Flare hole should be coated with the castable.  Inset it helps hold the flame and protect the flare some.  If the flare is inside the main area, it will get too hot.

Lastly, top right of page, click on your Name, Account Settings, Edit.. and put your location in.  You never know who might be around you.

[Ulfhedinn]

Thank you for the advice.  I ended up not ordering enough inswool :-/. So would it be just as good if I line the floor with firebrick, the sides and top with the inwool, and coating the firebricks with the Satanite, ITC-100 and bubble alumina? Or should I just order what I need and wait patiently? 

[Paragon]

Hard firebrick will act as a heat sink.  It is heat resistant but not a good insulator like the wool or soft firebrick (IFB = insulating fire brick).  The hard brick will take a while to heat up form what I have read.  Some use a thin brick for a floor (easily replaced) if you are doing welding but I wouldn't have that as the only layer.  I would just do it right and wait for more wool.  You will be more pleased with the end result.

go on Google and Bing maps and search for refractory in your area.  You may have someone local that has wool in stock.. it may only be sold in the full pack quantity but they may have some pieces around if they also construct.

[ThomasPowers]

Here in El Paso I talked with a fellow who did woodstoves and ordered kaowool by the box...Other places it was boiler maintenance and repair or pottery supplies.

[Ulfhedinn]

As hard as it was, I ordered more and waited.  Im now about to put the first layer of wool in today, im going to apply rigidizer to both layers of wool, is this correct?  Do I coat both sides of the wool ( the whole blanket) with rigidizer or just the inside side? 

Im only two week into learning to weld so my forge welds are not air tight, i worry about fibers making it through my welds which is why I wonder if I should coat the outside of the blanket also.  

[John in Oly, WA]

If you can, coat the whole blanket both sides and then put it into the shell wet. Then the second layer same way. And offset the seams.

Also, forge welds and welds on a forge are two different things.

[Ulfhedinn]

lol yeah i know, english is hard   the welds on my forge would have been a better phrase

Thanks for the response, ill do as you recommend. 

[JHCC]

17 minutes ago, John in Oly, WA said:

If you can, coat the whole blanket both sides and then put it into the shell wet. Then the second layer same way. And offset the seams.

John, would you suggest firing the forge between layers to fuse the rigidizer? Or to fire both layers together?

[ThomasPowers]

"May be two different things." (Most often are...)

[Ulfhedinn]

27 minutes ago, JHCC said:

John, would you suggest firing the forge between layers to fuse the rigidizer? Or to fire both layers together?

The Rigidizer I am using is instuff.

 

 

Quote

 

Manufacturer's information directly from the bottle:
 

Handling Instructions
- After air drying, Rigidizer provides a harder and resistant, but less resilient, surface on the material being treated.
- Container should be tightly sealed upon completion of job. 
- Avoid freezing, but if it occurs, Rigidizer should be thawed thoroughly and remixed.
- One gallon will cover an area approximately 50 sq. ft. with one brush coat.

  

Directions for Applying
- Remove dirt, grease, and oil from area to be coated.  For best results, surface should be rough or porous.
- Stir Rigidizer thoroughly before use.
- Allow Rigidizer to air dry at room temperature.  If desired, drying time for thin application may be shortened by using slightly higher temperatures up to 150 degrees F.
- On some surfaces, two coats may be required to obtain desired hardness.  Allow 4 hours between coats unless heat is applied to speed drying.
- Rinse equipment thoroughly in water as soon as possible after application is complete.

 

I don't think I will be firing the forge up until I get to the Satanite layer.  I will wait 24 hours in between layers of instuff.

 

[Hans Richter]

Welcome to IFI Ulfhedinn, glad to have you here

Next to all the very useful tips and feedback regarding the lining of you forge please take also care of some other safety items like:

-the distance between the burner to the rubber gas hose (if I see the example of the YT movie they is pretty close to the burner ones turned of and the heat from the forge crawls up through the burner like a chimney)

-ones the hose melted of or disrupt, you need a hose break valve/protection which close the gas supply after spontaneous escape

-In some cases you turn on/off your burner you will get a flame flashback in to your burner, -in the most cases nothing happened, in the worst case the flame will turn back in to the hose or gas cylinder, so a ‘flame killer’ flashback protection is no luxury

Last but not least, take care of CO poisoning if you work inside.

This and many other safety items are already mentioned in the safety section of IFI and other treats, and I’m glad the smith brothers & sisters repeat them if they see something dangerous or possibilities for extra safety and improvement.

Have fun with the forge, Cheers, Hans

[Ulfhedinn]

Would this work for flashback protection? 

[link removed]

Heres a picture of the forge, the hose is about 14 inches from the burner. Does this look okay?  Father of 4 here, need to make sure I'm here for them tomorrow so please help guide this total newb, I work at a desk so this world is very new to me.

 

Edit: Also will only be working with the garage door open, so I think I'm okay for ventilation and co gas.

Edited November 6, 2018 by Mod34
Commercial link removed per TOS

[Ulfhedinn]

43 minutes ago, Ulfhedinn said:

Would this work for flashback protection? 

[link removed]

 

Edit : kinda hard to make sure you have the correct thing without being able to post a link.

AGPTEK Oxygen Acetylene Flashback Arrestors Set Regulator End 9/16 -18 Threads B Size on Ama***.  Will that work? I can only find one for gas welding.

 

43 minutes ago, Ulfhedinn said:

Heres a picture of the forge, the hose is about 14 inches from the burner. Does this look okay?  Father of 4 here, need to make sure I'm here for them tomorrow so please help guide this total newb, I work at a desk so this world is very new to me.

 

Edit: Also will only be working with the garage door open, so I think I'm okay for ventilation and co gas.

 

[ThomasPowers]

GET A CO METER AND USE IT! Working with a garage door open may or may not work depending on air flow and location in the garage.  Remember you are literally betting your life on this DON'T GUESS!

[Ulfhedinn]

2 minutes ago, ThomasPowers said:

GET A CO METER AND USE IT! Working with a garage door open may or may not work depending on air flow and location in the garage.  Remember you are literally betting your life on this DON'T GUESS!

recommendations? 

[Hans Richter]

Hi,

-you can find decent CO alarms in the better hardware DIY shops around 30-50 bucks

-look further for Propane arrestors how fits to the left treated fittings on the original gas hose (if the acetylene fits OK the principle is the same ‘a mesh filter/labyrinth extinguish the flame’)

 

Please look also after the burner attachment, usually it’s a socket with fixation bolds so you can slide the burner lance trough the insulation/lining and reconsider the angle of them. With the oxygen rich flame you will have lots of mill scale with the burner aimed straight on your work piece. Most of the brothers prefer a vortex circulation in a round or U-shaped lining.

Don’t worry my first forge was much to oversized, a CO-bomb with a hell of dragon breath and a big fuel-lover with his two burners.

Cheers, Hans  

[Irondragon ForgeClay Works]

3 hours ago, Ulfhedinn said:

will only be working with the garage door open,

If your garage is attached to the house CO will infiltrate the house too , opening the door will not be enough. Put CO detectors in several locations inside the house as well.

[John in Oly, WA]

6 hours ago, ThomasPowers said:

"May be two different things." (Most often are...)

Funny, I thought that right after I posted it. And then thought, yeah, most likely anyway, rare would be a propane forge with forge welds.

 

JHCC - I would, and have, just fired them together. According to the info that came with my gallon, it develops a ceramic bond at 1600F. But then how deep will the heat of your forge penetrate the wool to 1600F? So how thick of a ceramic bond will be achieved? I don't know. And I haven't cut my forge apart to find out, so take my advice with a grain of salt (your choice what type). My scraps became rigid and bonded together sufficient to resist sluffing of fibers without any firing.