Suburbanite Shop

[Frosty]

My pleasure Slag, it's good when something comes up that used to be my job. Want to talk about bridge foundations? 

I just noticed the Mag Chloride mention, no experience on my part but it's hydrophilic so should work and it's not as corrosive as CaCl2.

The state was adding mag chloride pre-wet sprayers to the sand spreaders when I retired and they have multiple ice prevention mag chloride spray trucks. If they can get some on the pavement before it snows it prevents ice from sticking and the road stays clear. There are in place units on some of the more treacherous icy bridges that applies mag chloride through the asphalt, it's really effective. Makes dirt stick to vehicles though but safe matters more than clean and shiny.

Frosty The Lucky.

[D.Rotblatt]

The thread is a few months old....but, I do both blacksmithing (bladework mostly) and bronze casting.  My studio is 900 sq ft, 30x 30 (and it's never enough room), but within it are the following areas.  The forging area in my studio is about 10' square, the major tools arranged in an arc with about 6' open space in the middle (power hammer, leg vice, welding table with Mig welder under it, oxy-acetyline torch, small press, anvil and swage block behind it, and propane forge).  I have an 8' roll-up door facing the opening of the arc, and 7' high x 5' wide windows on the opposite wall over the welding table. The forge is on wheels so I can push it out of the way when needed, the anvil is on a stump that I can scoot around.  For casting I have a 6' x 32" x 18" high box with lid for my casting sand.  It is on legs with rollers so it is at counter height - inside a board can be put on ledges and molds made on that, sand is in the bottom of the box and easy to scoop up.  I also have a small mixing tank for ceramic shell casting, but that is dismantled now.  My furnace is portable and can melt 30 lbs of bronze - which is as much as I can safely handle myself anyway (I have a furnace that will melt 90 lbs, but I never use it).  I generally set up for casting outside for casting.   I have a 30' x 20' area in front of my studio.  That is safer then casting inside my studio since I have a concrete floor.  Remember: liquid metal + concrete = flying bits of metal and cement.  

Given all that: a  10 x 20 space would work.  You would have the forging area in a 10x10 section, and  table that would do double duty to make molds and any other table work you want to do.  If you are doing sand casting you might want a box, maybe 3' wide to make molds in.  You will also want some room for any other tools: drill press, grinder, buffing machine.  If there is space outside, you can do you're casting there.  Here's an attachment to the build for my furnace: http://www.rotblattsculpture.com/Articles/buildingabronzec.html 

Draw it, make cutouts of all the things you need.  Figure 3' minimum for any walkway.  6' radius for an open area for the forge area.

I'm still trying to figure out where to put things and how the best arrangement would be.  Mainly because every few years my interests alter and I go off in a different direction.  Frosty's suggestion was good: make everything mobile.  I have wheels on a lot of my tools; worktables, welding table, propane forge.  The only things bolted down are the power hammer and post vice.

Dan

[Thursigar]

Well due to finances we had to considerably cut the size of the shop down. It now going to be 8x10. Orienting it so 8 feet of one of the 10 foot sides open up. Decided on dirt floors and peak style roof 9 feet highish. Got the holes for the posts dug yesterday and will be cementing them today. Pic attached. 

Edited February 17, 2019 by Mod30
resize large photos.

[Cincinnatus]

Very nice - keep posting pics so we can see the progress.

[Frosty]

Here's a suggestion that will make future expansion much easier. Put a shed roof on it pitched on a long side and the ridge towards the space it can expand into. With only 10' the ridge side wall doesn't need support except at the ends, this is primo.

When you can afford to expand remove the sheathing and studs from the tall side and duplicate the shop sharing the ridge. That'll give you 10' x 16' with 10' eaves. A little odd but workable. Of course you can pitch it to the 8' side and end up with 8' x 20' for a narrower gable end. Same area, just a little different shape. 

I like making scale cutouts of my equipment, furniture, etc. to play with on graph paper outlines. Don't forget to make your human working here circle cutout! I use two circles, one to represent the work triangle, the other to represent how much room I need to work comfortably. 

I've used Cadd to play with interior arrangements but the cutouts are easier, there isn't ONE menu. Menu menu menus

Frosty The Lucky.

[Thursigar]

We were able to get the foundation in place today and the walls framed. Pics attached. Next up is the roof. 

Frosty, cant do shed style food with purpose of doubling on other side as 8t would violate our HOA guidelines on square footage. Good thinking though. 

 

i like the idea about the cutouts! I think I'm going to make some "future" additional cutouts too for a drill press and a sander. 

One nut I'm trying to crack is where to store stock. Right now I'm planning on the back wall opposite the door so I can easily store 8 ft stock. Any good storage solutions y'all use other than yhrowing it up on a shelf or two?

 

[ThomasPowers]

Outside under the projecting eves?

[George N. M.]

A couple of things that you or anyone else might want to consider are:

A.  Storage and amount of propane.  Some municipalities and HOAs may restrict the storage of flammable gases above a certain amount.  Usually, a couple 20 pound BBQ size tanks are OK but larger amounts may be restricted by local fire codes.  This is one of the reasons that some folk go to natural gas fired forges.  Also, a forge may draw a small tank down fast enough that the remaining liquid drops beneath its vapor pressure (freezes up) and will not supply fuel until it warms up.  I have had that happen with small tanks but not larger ones.  That is one of the reasons that I tend to use a coal/coke forge.

B.  This should not be a problem with you but I include it for the interest of others:  In some locations air pollution regulations may restrict the use of solid fuel forges.  I suggest that a person actually check the language of the local air quality law because there may be some interesting loop holes.  Some places may prohibit wood or coal fuels but that does not include coke or charcoal.  Others may restrict "solid fuels."  I am in an urban residential area and switched to coke as a fuel when I moved here so that I wouldn't be putting out coal smoke which might impact the neighbors.  In 20+ years no one has complained.

C.  As previously mentioned, pounding on hot metal should not generate significant noise problems.  The hot iron deadens the ring of an anvil.  Avoid the habit some smiths have of bouncing the hammer on the anvil to pause between blows on the hot metal.  I, personally, have always found that annoying and wasteful of time and energy but there are some who learned that way and do it without thought and not to do so would be interrupting and restricting in the flow of their work.  Power tools like saws and grinders are a much more significant source of noise problems with the neighbors.  So is working cold metal, particularly sheet metal which will bang and ring.  You may have to get imaginative if that is an issue for you.

"By hammer and hand all arts do stand."

 

[Thursigar]

On 2/17/2019 at 8:14 PM, ThomasPowers said:

Outside under the projecting eves?

I think this is the route I'm going to go! We built extra long eves to both help protect against rain coming in the front and for possible stick storage in the back.  Do you think a tarp would be needed to hang from the roof to help protect it? 

 

On 2/18/2019 at 12:25 AM, George N. M. said:

A couple of things that you or anyone else might want to consider are:

A.  Storage and amount of propane.  

Just using bbq tanks for now. Have a bucket of water I can use for freezing. 

Putting the roof on today! 

 

Edited February 21, 2019 by Mod30
resize large photos.

[Irondragon Forge ClayWorks]

Looks like you are coming right along. You might want to read this thread to get the best out of the forum. READ THIS FIRST

Bonus tip #3 outlines how to edit your photos for size, that way the Mods won't have to do that.

[Frosty]

Looking good! Sure the wife's going to let you put dirty old tools in it?  It's awful pretty all new and clean like that you know.

Does it have that new shop smell? 

Frosty The Lucky.

[Thursigar]

It's been awhile since I posted a shop update. After we got the roof on, all the tedious work started. Essentially, since this is a very small shop (8x10), I had to design every area with the small floorplan in mind. Because of that, most areas are multi-purpose. I also incorporated ideas from the members of this forum where I found it feasible to do so. 

 

First pic is just a big shot of the shed itself. Ideas from the forum found here are as big doors as possible (wife wouldn't let me do sliding), a gate, a propane forge with dual frosty t-burners, and im currently considering extending the roof out. 

Second pic is of the right side of the shop. It contains a double lazy Susan in the corner that holds my (cheap) bench top tools (sander, drill press, grinder, room for a bandsaw). Underneath is a second lazy Susan that has my power tools and other miscilanealous items. I added a corner shelf for general storage. 

Next to that is a small but tall workbench. It functions as a workbench, stores my table saw underneath that is on drawer sliders, and supports stock for my cut off saw. 

Closest to the door is obviously my cut off saw. Underneath is a shop vac for very basic dust collection. I plan on eventually expanding this out. I also plan on adding a shelf on the door itself to act as stock support for the chop saw.

Last pic is the left side of the shop. To the right of the picture and centered in my shop is a railroad anvil in the vertical position (thanks here), with bending forks, a hot cut and fuller ground in (thanks again). I also buried it in sand and dirt to increase stability and decrease noise (thanks!). Above is some very basic stock storage that I will upgrade at some point, but I have additional storage behind the shed under an eave (thanks)! Along the wall is my normal workbench. I built in a trashcan with wooden clamps to secure bags. On top of the bench I have a horizontal railroad anvil for when it's easier for some applications. Below the workbench is spring coil storage. On the wall I'm beginning my hammer/tong/punch/chisel collection. 

Thanks to IFI members for all of your help. This wouldn't haven't been possible if it werent for everyone offering their advice and wisdom. I've already started paying it forward in the few instances I have been able to. 

 

[ThomasPowers]

Have you thought of a hinged lift up door with drop down legs allowing you a wide "porch" to work under?

[Anachronist58]

Thomas, using that concept, I recently added 80 square feet to my disaster! Polls & a tarp, and with the OP's eave configuration - nice & dry.

Robert Taylor

[Thursigar]

46 minutes ago, Anachronist58 said:

 

Actually this is something I started thinking about! Was thinking about where and how to secure the poles (fiagonalnwith the doors? Vertical with PVC pipe in the ground? Etc). Was also wondering if the heat from the forge would melt a tarp.

[Anachronist58]

Actually, looking at your door setup, I addressed THAT configuration by laying sheets of corrugated polycarbonate across the top edges of the doors.

PVC tent poles and tent ropes with stakes for the tarp idea.

I have had success with forge exhaust and tarps but take nothing for granted.

Of course, the lift up door concept would require that you scrap your barn doors.

Over the years, I have found that laying down 12 x 12 pavers to be a very beneficial investment.

[ThomasPowers]

Depends on what type of forge, how large a forge, how big a fire and how high the tarp is over it.  I've had forge tarps of cotton canvas that have lasted 20 years without singeing about 7' off the ground for my travel set up; YMMV.  Hand crank and bellows air---a bit easier as there isn't constant fire enhancement.