Conrad.blacksmithing Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 Ok, this is my first post I became a member because I am new to smithing and need some tips. I'm 14 and I just bought a 3"x 60" belt sander with a grinding wheel and made a diy jig for grinding bevels on knives. I also just forged my first knife out of spring steel and did a hollow grind for the bevel because it was kind of thick. Well, the platform on my sander to put the jig on does not go down to the wheel for doing hollow grinds. I attached some pictures. Does anybody have any tips on how to do hollow grinds freehand. Because I ended up with waves in my bevel and looks kind of bad. (If the sander pictures are confusing the arm tilts back for the wheel to be exposed.) Also if you have any tips on charcoal forges please feel free and riveting tongs. Thanks :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lou L Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 I appreciate your attention to detail. It belies your age. In my opinion, that is a really nice first try for a free hand grind on a wheel. It’s a skill many don’t even bother trying to learn. You can touch that line up with a hand file to get it straight OR just try a few light passes on the wheel again. Keep your hands in a comfortable but sturdy position on the knife, keep your elbows locked in by your side to limit arm movement, and keep your feet shoulder width apart and square to the grinder. Apply the knife gently to the belt so you can feel the bevel “fit” into place and then use your legs to slowly shift your body ever so slightly to make the blade move across the belt. I found that, when I used my arms, it always went crooked on me. So let your whole body be “locked” onto the knife and shift slowly side ways. Also, make sure you aren’t using too aggressive of a grit. It is nearly impossible to get a straight line with 36 grit. 80 is tough. If you already heat treated then watch the temperature of the blade. Dunk it in water each pass. If not, then be sure not to grind the knife edge too thin before heat treat. The only way to get those lines straight is to do it a bunch of times. Each knife you make will get better and better so just enjoy the process. Lou Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billyO Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 As mentioned above, practice is the key. Also, this question may be more appropriate in the Bladesmithing section of this forum. If possible, join your local blacksmithing organization, although it's probably the NWBA and those events can be tough to get to for a 14 y/o. Most importantly, have fun and don't get discouraged. If you keep at it, you'll be way ahead of me before you get to get to 1/2 my age. as always peace and love billyO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irondragon Forge ClayWorks Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 For help & tips on forges, have a look here and pay attention to the JABOD threads. https://www.iforgeiron.com/forum/64-solid-fuel-forges/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foundryman Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 That grind line isn't terrible, you could easily clean it up with hand sanding, just use your belt grinder to grind yourself a sanding block the same radius as your contact wheel and go at it, you'll tidy everything up in no time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conrad.blacksmithing Posted October 3, 2018 Author Share Posted October 3, 2018 Thanks for the help guys. I will definitely keep practicing and hopefully improving. One more question I have is what grit do I get the knife before I heat treat? (I haven't heat treated and waiting to get some higher grit belts for sander.) Also do you guys recommend a solid fuel forge or a gas forge because at the moment I have a pretty nice portable coal forge and it heated the knife in the picture to white in 1 minute or less. Thanks in advance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buzzkill Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 I usually grind to about 200 grit before heat treating. It doesn't do much good to go too fine because the finish will be affected by heat treating and normally you still have to remove a little more metal after heat treating anyway. Personally I recommend gas forges for knife making since you can set the temperature you want and not have to worry about burning your steel if you get distracted for a few seconds at the wrong time. There's nothing wrong with a solid fuel forge and many people do great work with them. You just have more variables to control and less room for error. If you did actually heat your steel to white hot you may have gotten it too hot and weakened the steel you were using. What was your starting stock? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conrad.blacksmithing Posted October 3, 2018 Author Share Posted October 3, 2018 My friend gave me his broken leaf springs from f350 and I used that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 Use what you have. Heat treating in a pipe with once closed end and some crushed charcoal in it to scavenge O2 can help. Stick it in the hot spot of the forge for more even heating of the blade and less chance of burning it up or decarburizing it. Failure mode for leaf springs is generally multiple micro cracks forming from abuse or fatigue and one propagating to destruction so don't be surprised if other cracks show up in your blade as you finish it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conrad.blacksmithing Posted October 3, 2018 Author Share Posted October 3, 2018 Thanks Thomas, I don't really understand what you are saying about the charcoal and 02, my dad and I got so sheet metal and brazed a make-do box with some mineral oil. Hope it will work. Is there any oils that are better for treating spring steel? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John in Oly, WA Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 If it were me, I'd make an attachment to mount on the sander that put a tool rest right in front of the lower wheel, then I could steady the blade while doing the hollow grind bevels. Another thing I did was make several blade shapes out of mild (read "cheap") steel and practiced with those. I just found freehand hollow grinds without a tool rest were too difficult for me to get as clean a grind as I wanted. Thomas is talking about the heating for hardening process, not the quenching part. You heat it inside a pipe that is sitting in your forge fire to get a more uniform, controlled heating of your blade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conrad.blacksmithing Posted October 3, 2018 Author Share Posted October 3, 2018 Yeah, I just realized that. I was thinking that 02 was a steel not oxygen. Guess I gotta slow down. That is a very good idea, does it keep the blade from getting scale? Thanks again for everyone's help I have learned so much in two days that I didn't know about blacksmithing/bladesmithing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John in Oly, WA Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 5 minutes ago, metaldrms said: does it keep the blade from getting scale That's what the crushed charcoal is supposed to help with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 Yes, No, Maybe depending on how you do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHCC Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 47 minutes ago, metaldrms said: I was thinking that 02 was a steel not oxygen. Yes, O1 is the steel, O2 is oxygen, and O3 is ozone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conrad.blacksmithing Posted October 3, 2018 Author Share Posted October 3, 2018 Ok, thanks that is really good to know. Thanks for the advice. Also thank you Lou L for the grinding technique you told me about I retried it just now and am really impressed with the results of the grind line. I do think I got the edge a little too thin so I hope it doesn't warp or get cracks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buzzkill Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 You can always grind a little off what will be the cutting edge to get back to thicker steel either before or after the quench. Barring a catastrophic failure we just make smaller knives when we make mistakes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conrad.blacksmithing Posted October 3, 2018 Author Share Posted October 3, 2018 Lol I will definitely consider that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 Not bad for a first blade. Free hand grinding takes practice, usually lots but it looks like you have a knack for it. The bladesmith's adage about making smaller blades instead of mistakes reminds me of Bob Ross from Joy of Painting. "We don't make mistakes we have happy accidents." You'd be amazed how often knife guys trim edges to get the desired thickness, it's a pretty normal technique. The warmer steel is the faster it oxidizes when you heat it to orange heat, say 1,600 f. it forms scale as soon as it's exposed to air. What you REALLY want to avoid is forming scale in the fire, that can be avoided by proper fire management. When you take it out to quench move FAST because it starts losing mass to scale instantly. Make sense? Frosty The Lucky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daswulf Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 Metaldrms, you would benefit greatly by making a plunge line jig. Look them up, very simple to make. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conrad.blacksmithing Posted October 3, 2018 Author Share Posted October 3, 2018 Yes, Frosty that makes a lot of sense when I was forging this knife there were some pretty large sheets of scale coming off I was a little worried about that. Frosty, is mineral oil ok to quench spring steel in? or should I buy some actual quenching oil? Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 Warm Vegetable would probably be a better choice. Did you read the heat treating stickies? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conrad.blacksmithing Posted October 3, 2018 Author Share Posted October 3, 2018 No, I didn't but I will for sure. I will definitely do the Vegetable oil. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John in Oly, WA Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 I second Das' suggestion - plunge line jig - good thing to have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted October 4, 2018 Share Posted October 4, 2018 Vegetable oil is fine, canola is MAYBE better than most I'd check the stickies in the heat treat section and see what the consensus is. How fast steel scale is visible proof why you shouldn't take steel out of the fire and stand there looking at it thinking about what to do next. This is a normal beginner mistake, do your thinking while the steel is heating. Have the tools you need next out and in position so you can go to work as soon as possible when you take it out. Frosty The Lucky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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