Jboon

Any Idea of the Make on this Hammer?

Recommended Posts

I offered to buy but then back out becuase it's three phase. Any ideas what it is? It is 150 lbs and runs. Thats about all i know

 

hammer side.JPG

hammer front.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That's a Howe, patented as a St.Laurence hammer.  Made in Rutland, Vermont.  Quite rare, supposedly seriously solid industrial machines.  3 phase wouldn't stop me, easy enough to swap the motor or put on a phase converter.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Edit: just found the thread on the 200 lb Howe posted in April  

I offered $1000 and it was accepted but I know it’s worth more.  What about the rubber? How would a guy replace that? Replace the motor with what a single phase 10 horse? That’s the biggest single phase I’ve seen. I’ve never run any machinery on a phase converter either. Wouldn’t it be doggy?

Thanks for the info. I’ve done Onnamental iron on the side for 20 years and want to step up my game from crap like this and go from a cut out guy to smithing. 

75A6738E-FD58-4FE3-A7F9-66FBD7DA0C92.jpeg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Any chance in getting 3 phase to your shop?  10HP is a serious draw on a single phase system and 3 phase motors/equipment can often be sourced quite cheaply making upping your game easier and cheaper in lots of ways!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Man, what a cool hammer. For the Rubber, I would run it and see what it does. If it seems to be cracking or not flexing right, I would replace them. Since they look like biscuits you have it pretty easy. First, buy a Shore A scale measurement tool off the south american river vendor, and take a knife and peel back the crusty outer layer until you see good rubber. You might get results between 65-95A. Best to measure in a few spots.  Then contact a industrial supply house for Rubber or Urethane rod in the Shore hardness you need and the diameter. Cut them to length and/or drill the center hole and install. If they end up having rounded ends, you can turn them in a lathe under the right conditions.

As for power, how much single phase power is going into your shop? Like Thomas said, is there a possibility of adding 3 phase? If not, I would not hesitate to use a phase convertor.  When you think "doggy" in phase convertor terms a lot of folks are thinking of the old "buzz box" style static phase convertors which are nothing like a modern rotary phase convertor. If you plan on running any three phase equipment in the future (compressor, mill, lathe, more hammers ect..), I would contact American Rotary or someone like them and see what options they have for you.  Also, compared to a 10 HP single phase motor the 3 phase/rotary setup will be a lot more energy efficient. Also, make friends with a good electrician who has done commercial work.

-Morgan

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So i bought it and brought it home. heavy enough to make the 5k forklift barely steerable. Now to figure out power and learn enough to really use it. Thanks for the advice, when the opportunity arises sometimes you need to stretch your comfort zone. It'll be awhile before I get it running, got to find a south american river vendor, but I have gaswizard's post to reference. Thanks again for the info.

20181006_175152.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That's a great hammer!  I did a fair amount of work under a friend's 100# Howe... good control and brake system.  For a 150# mechanical a 7.5 hp single phase motor should work just fine... I have a 7.5 hp 3 phase motor on my 300# Beaudry and that works fine too.  I bet you could get away with a 5 hp single phase motor on that, with a starter.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you can get three-phase power installed for a reasonable fee, that would be my first choice, as Thomas suggested, but as Morgan mentioned, a rotary converter is a good option if you can't get 3-phase power into your shop.

I built a rotary phase converter to run the three-phase motors on my my vertical mill, lathe, and a couple of other pieces of equipment. I bought a kit that included the start and run capacitors, relays, contactor, connectors, terminal blocks, etc., and bought a new idler motor to work with the kit. That was over ten years ago, and I can't remember all the specs, but it did save some money as compared to a ready-made rotary converter. It's heavy, probably about 275 pounds, so I mounted it on a dedicated hand truck to move it around.

Or, as Salem mentioned, you could probably switch to a single-phase drive motor for the hammer, but they are less efficient, and you'd have to make sure that it's fully compatible with the equipment.

If you decide to use a single-phase motor, or a three-phase rotary converter kit, or a ready-made three-phase rotary converter, be sure to contact the manufacturer before ordering it and provide full information on your entire setup and how the motor (or converter) will be used, so that you end up with something that works perfectly with your equipment. They will almost certainly have a number of questions for you.

By the way, is there a readable data plate on the existing motor, and do you know if it is the original motor?

Al (Steamboat)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just a theoretical question...a-cuz I have never run a power hammer.

Most of those larger machines seem to run with a really high upper "blows per minute" that seems designed for a fast-paced factory setting.  In a more "art shop" situation, would such a hammer still give reasonable service if one were to use something like half the HP, changing the motor pulley so that the blows per minute were also halved?   In this case, that'd effectively mean changing to 5 hp (ignoring other machine energy losses for the question)  which is more reasonable for a single-phase shop.

Yes, you'd lose the top end and the full benefits of a 150 lb hammer but do most small shops really need that top end performance vs usually working in the lower-middle range of a big hammer?  I see a shop like the O.P.s being oriented toward needing finesse in a hammer rather than brute beating force at breakneck speeds.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This hammer probably has a normal top speed of 220-250 blows per minute... which can certainly come in handy, particularly when drawing out.  The 10 hp motor it has now I certainly think is much more motor than it needs... I bet it came with a 5 hp motor if motor-drive options existed.  Beaudry and DuPont Fairbanks literature both list 5 hp motors on their 150 lb. hammers.
http://www.newenglandblacksmiths.org/beaudry/

A 5 hp motor is not that hard to find or expensive, unless you need a real slow one.  It's not worth the loss of performance to downgrade the motor to 3 hp, and I don't think lowering the RPM would much make up for an undersized motor anyway...

These hammers are capable of very good control and finesse indeed regardless of HP or motor speed (granted it's not driven above manufacturer rated RPM.)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 10/24/2018 at 4:03 PM, Kozzy said:

 In a more "art shop" situation, would such a hammer still give reasonable service if one were to use something like half the HP, changing the motor pulley so that the blows per minute were also halved?   In this case, that'd effectively mean changing to 5 hp (ignoring other machine energy losses for the question)  which is more reasonable for a single-phase shop.

Slower rotation of the input changes the reaction of the springs and linkage.  Slower rpm would degrade the performance of an antique mechanical.  It's a dynamic system.  And even an "art shop" needs to put product out the door to pay the bills, so running a hammer the way it was designed is advantageous.  Mechanicals do tend to run faster than air hammers, but the bigger ones run slower than small ones typically.  Thanks to SS for the link to the NEB website, you can find a bunch of info on antique hammer rpm there.  Note that older motors had a little more copper in them so they were a little more robust when working on the bitter edge. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now