BryanL Posted September 14, 2018 Share Posted September 14, 2018 Got the Champion No. 0 out of the van and into the shop today to start taking it apart and see what shape it's in. Overall, it looks quite good. I don't have any experience with Babbitt's, so if anyone can comment on the pics, I would appreciate it. I believe they look decent enough to run as is but advice would be great. I'll update this thread as it comes together. I think my first task is to clean and paint. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irondragon Forge ClayWorks Posted September 15, 2018 Share Posted September 15, 2018 The babbitt bearings look good to me. Are there any shims between the frame & bearing caps? As long as there isn't excessive play between the shaft & bearing you should be good to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BryanL Posted September 15, 2018 Author Share Posted September 15, 2018 There was shims on the rear bearing only. I'll check for play when I put it back together. The bolts were all slightly loose when I got it, so I haven't checked with it fully tightened. Thanks for taking a look! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BryanL Posted September 15, 2018 Author Share Posted September 15, 2018 Update, pretty much finished wire brushing the main frame. I decided it's getting a full paint job. Thankfully I listened when you all told me to get respirator a while back. Nasty job. Few issues I've got in front of me. I want to get at the pin holding the spring arms to the hammer but don't see yet how to get it out. I hear this pin is a big wear point so I want to see it's condition. One of the treadle mount eye bolts is sheared off in the base. The wedges holding the dies are super tight, have not gotten them loose yet. I've been hitting them every couple hours with PB blaster for a day so far. I'm not quite sure what these dies would have been used for. It's not a simple radius, it's two convex sections on each side and a flat in the middle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BryanL Posted September 16, 2018 Author Share Posted September 16, 2018 Paint job! Happy with how that looks. Hopefully I can get the sheared bolts out next weekend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irondragon Forge ClayWorks Posted September 17, 2018 Share Posted September 17, 2018 I should have mentioned that Plastigage strips can be used to measure the clearance in the babbitt bearings, most auto supply stores have them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BryanL Posted September 17, 2018 Author Share Posted September 17, 2018 Awesome, thanks. I'll check that out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted September 27, 2018 Share Posted September 27, 2018 Can you fasten a come-along to the wedges and put some tension on it while you tap the small end with a brass hammer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BryanL Posted September 28, 2018 Author Share Posted September 28, 2018 That's a good thought Thomas. We tried something similar with long pry bars tensioning the wedges while I tapped them. My dad was standing on the two prybars lol. We may have to try your method for more consistent tension. I was actually thinking about leaving them and hoping starting to use the hammer would loosen them up. What do you think of that? Of course I got sent on work travel so I'm itching to get home and work on it. Bryan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS3900 Posted September 28, 2018 Share Posted September 28, 2018 If its stuck and needs to be pulled out, and you can weld threaded rod to it, a hollow porta-power is your friend. Stuck die keys that frustrate for days come out in 10 minutes with a push of a pedal. I would not use this on the base though. If the angles are not right, you might end up breaking the corner off it. Grinding it down and/or making a hole in the center of it then trying to tap it out would be my first go. The pin for the spring linkage almost looks like it was assembled and then squashed in a press to save money. What does it look like on the side with the dovetail slide? Could it be threaded on that side or pressed in? --Morgan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted September 28, 2018 Share Posted September 28, 2018 I still remember one of my students with his first power hammer; he spent several hours trying to remove the wedge and then asked me for my help. I went over and looked at it carefully and told him to "Try driving it the *other* way!" A few minutes later the lower die was free.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judson Yaggy Posted September 29, 2018 Share Posted September 29, 2018 I've seen this hammer in person, and encouraged Bryan to buy it for a very reasonable price. The wedge(s) on the back of the lower die are 2 pieces, driven into the dovetail opposing one another. Look again at the pics above. Bad practice and that's a little troublesome , but the portapower, drilling it out, and comealongs (in order of precedence in my opinion) should work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BryanL Posted September 29, 2018 Author Share Posted September 29, 2018 Morgan, there is nothing visible on the dovetail side of that pin. I do intend to remove and replace that pin but haven't decided how to get it out. I may weld a bar to it so I can get a grip on it. Bryan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Coke Posted September 29, 2018 Share Posted September 29, 2018 Greetings Bryanl, I have had success in the past welding a ring to the wedge on the exit side than using an auto axle slam puller backed up by a friend on the other side with an air chisel. The vibration and shock does the trick. For sure lots of good lube.. Good luck it will happen. Forge on and make beautiful things Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS3900 Posted September 29, 2018 Share Posted September 29, 2018 I just read my post again and it might of been a bit confusing - porta-power for the keys ; but for the broken bolt in the base drill a hole in it. The hole usually collapses the bolt enough to drive it out. Bryan can you post some pictures from different angles of that pin and the dovetail? It's hard to tell what exactly is going on. Whether the pin and dovetail were cast/forged as one piece and machined or pressed in or what. Worst case there is a hammer-in in the North East, MD area coming up in Oct, at a shop that has one of these hammers. The owner is a nice guy and has rebuilt several champion hammers and might have some tips I can ask him about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BryanL Posted September 29, 2018 Author Share Posted September 29, 2018 I just checked but I don't have any other pictures of the pin. Sadly I'm out of town for work...or I would be out working on the hammer right now. Judson has a similar hammer, the next size up Champion and he replaced his pin. I'm hoping it is threaded in. If you get any tips from the hammer-in, that would be great! I'll update here as I make progress. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BryanL Posted October 7, 2018 Author Share Posted October 7, 2018 Progress post. Drilled out and re-tapped the screws in the base to hold the treadle (if that is the right word). So far, I'm batting a zero with bolt extractors. I will have to forge 3 new bolts for those holes, mine are all bent up or snapped. Also made progress on the stuck ram pin. Ended up drilling out the set screw ( again no luck with the bolt extractor) and had to weld a big bar to the bolt to free it up. Much sweat and PB blaster later, it is free. Glad I took the time, there is definitely wear on the pin. I plan to replace it with a 4140 pin. 1 or 2 new set screws. This project will take a real hit since I am headed to Indiana for work, for 3 or 4 months. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BryanL Posted October 8, 2018 Author Share Posted October 8, 2018 More progress and a question. Painted the ram after cleaning it up. I am now debating if I should clean the driven pulley. It's got heavy rust on it that I think would provide great friction for the flat belt, but would also probably be abrasive. So I'm thinking about wire wheeling it, which should remove the rust but leave any light pitting for friction. Any have advice? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS3900 Posted October 8, 2018 Share Posted October 8, 2018 Getting the pin out looks like it was a royal pain. Yea... I would say there is some wear there. Do you plan on re-bushing the toggle links to the new pin? I would wire wheel the pulley and get any loose rust off; but I would not paint the inside of the pulley where the belt rides. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BryanL Posted October 8, 2018 Author Share Posted October 8, 2018 I am still undecided about how to address the toggle links. Whether to replace or not, whether to re-bush (which is something I've never done, I understand it will insert a sleeve to reduce the hole size). They currently measure 13/16, and with the old pin having wear, there was significant slop there. If I just replace it with a 3/4 pin, it would tighten up when compared to the worn pin. What is not clear to me, is what is the appropriate amount of slop between the pin and toggle arms? Is 1/16 total Ok? Or should I think about replacing the toggle arms? Also, one of the toggle arms has a terrible threaded end. I can get a nut on it, but it's pretty bad. Would be a fun forging project, a bit of a stretch for me which is the best way to grow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irondragon Forge ClayWorks Posted October 8, 2018 Share Posted October 8, 2018 At the very least the toggle arm with the messed up threads should have a proper sized die run on it to clean up the threads. Wire brush the loose rust off the pulley face and let the belt polish it up without painting it there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS3900 Posted October 8, 2018 Share Posted October 8, 2018 Toggle Arm #2 from that pic looks like someone may have forged a replacement, and those threads on the one look like their worn down enough that the major diameter might be too small to get much bite even if you chase it with a die. If it were me, I would determine the original pin size and make a new one that size. Making new toggle arms would also be my preference via any method available. The tolerances on the pin to the toggles need to be tight. .005-.010. You can use a reamer to achieve this or find a automotive machine shop that can put them on their rod hone. If you go the hone route take your pin so they can fit the toggles to it. Mechanical hammers suffer from a terrible snowball effect. If you have half a dozen components that are at the high end of their tolerances it will combine to make the hammer run poorly. You want each component within spec so that when you hit the treadle it operates smoothly and predictably. How do the toggle links fit into the bar that goes through the spring? Does the spring or that pin have any wear? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BryanL Posted October 8, 2018 Author Share Posted October 8, 2018 The bar that goes in the spring seems to have less than 1/32 slop. But it's hard to tell with it all apart. The bar to spring seems worse. You can see what appears to be wear on those. When I got the spring pack apart, a significant amount of rust fell out before even cleaning them. If this is the original spring pack, not so much really for 100 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BryanL Posted October 8, 2018 Author Share Posted October 8, 2018 A good hour of wire wheeling later... I think this while spring assembly should just be finished with BLO, seems silly to paint it. I think paint would just rub off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS3900 Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 From the looks of it, I would replace the bars in the spring as well if possible. Less slop means equal lengths, which means equal tension and a smoother running hammer. The spring pack looks healthy, BLO should be fine or wax. I mix Johnson's paste wax with BLO for a lot of stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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