BryanL

Champion No. 0 back to work

Recommended Posts

Got the Champion No. 0 out of the van and into the shop today to start taking it apart and see what shape it's in. Overall, it looks quite good. I don't have any experience with Babbitt's, so if anyone can comment on the pics, I would appreciate it. I believe they look decent enough to run as is but advice would be great. I'll update this thread as it comes together. I think my first task is to clean and paint.

20180914_114210.jpg

20180914_124040.jpg

20180914_141737.jpg

20180914_141743.jpg

20180914_141752.jpg

20180914_141756.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The babbitt bearings look good to me. Are there any shims between the frame & bearing caps? As long as there isn't excessive play between the shaft & bearing you should be good to go.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There was shims on the rear bearing only. I'll check for play when I put it back together. The bolts were all slightly loose when I got it, so I haven't checked with it fully tightened.

Thanks for taking a look!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Update, pretty much finished wire brushing the main frame. I decided it's getting a full paint job. Thankfully I listened when you all told me to get respirator a while back. Nasty job.

Few issues I've got in front of me. I want to get at the pin holding the spring arms to the hammer but don't see yet how to get it out. I hear this pin is a big wear point so I want to see it's condition.

One of the treadle mount eye bolts is sheared off in the base.

The wedges holding the dies are super tight, have not gotten them loose yet. I've been hitting them every couple hours with PB blaster for a day so far.

 

20180915_105726.jpg

20180915_105734.jpg

20180915_105739.jpg

20180915_105756.jpg

20180915_105810.jpg

I'm not quite sure what these dies would have been used for. It's not a simple radius, it's two convex sections on each side and a flat in the middle.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Paint job! Happy with how that looks. Hopefully I can get the sheared bolts out next weekend. 

20180916_153018.jpg

20180916_153030.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Can you fasten a come-along to the wedges and put some tension on it while you tap the small end with a brass hammer?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That's a good thought Thomas. We tried something similar with long pry bars tensioning the wedges while I tapped them. My dad was standing on the two prybars lol. We may have to try your method for more consistent tension.

I was actually thinking about leaving them and hoping starting to use the hammer would loosen them up. What do you think of that?

Of course I got sent on work travel so I'm itching to get home and work on it.

Bryan

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If its stuck and needs to be pulled out, and you can weld threaded rod to it, a hollow porta-power is your friend.  Stuck die keys that frustrate for days come out in 10 minutes with a push of a pedal. I would not use this on the base though.  If the angles are not right, you might end up breaking the corner off it. Grinding it down and/or making a hole in the center of it then trying to tap it out would be my first go. The pin for the spring linkage almost looks like it was assembled and then squashed in a press to save money. What does it look like on the side with the dovetail slide? Could it be threaded on that side or pressed in?

 

--Morgan

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I still remember one of my students with his first power hammer; he spent several hours trying to remove the wedge and then asked me for my help.  I went over and looked at it carefully and told him to "Try driving it the *other* way!"  A few minutes later the  lower die was free....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've seen this hammer in person, and encouraged Bryan to buy it for a very reasonable price.  

The wedge(s) on the back of the lower die are 2 pieces, driven into the dovetail opposing one another.  Look again at the pics above. Bad practice and that's a little troublesome , but the portapower, drilling it out, and comealongs (in order of precedence in my opinion) should work.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Morgan, there is nothing visible on the dovetail side of that pin. I do intend to remove and replace that pin but haven't decided how to get it out. I may weld a bar to it so I can get a grip on it.

Bryan

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Greetings Bryanl,

         I have had success in the past welding a ring to the wedge on the exit side than using an auto axle slam puller backed up by a friend on the other side with an air chisel. The vibration and shock does the trick. For sure lots of good lube.. Good luck it will happen. 

Forge on and make beautiful things 

Jim

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I just read my post again and it might of been a bit confusing - porta-power for the keys ; but for the broken bolt in the base drill a hole in it.  The hole usually collapses the bolt enough to drive it out.

Bryan can you post some pictures from different angles of that pin and the dovetail? It's hard to tell what exactly is going on. Whether the pin and dovetail were cast/forged as one piece and machined or pressed in or what.  Worst case there is a hammer-in in the North East, MD area coming up in Oct, at a shop that has one of these hammers.  The owner is a nice guy and has rebuilt several champion hammers and might have some tips I can ask him about.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I just checked but I don't have any other pictures of the pin. Sadly I'm out of town for work...or I would be out working on the hammer right now. Judson has a similar hammer, the next size up Champion and he replaced his pin. I'm hoping it is threaded in.

If you get any tips from the hammer-in, that would be great! I'll update here as I make progress.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Progress post. Drilled out and re-tapped the screws in the base to hold the treadle (if that is the right word). So far, I'm batting a zero with bolt extractors. I will have to forge 3 new bolts for those holes, mine are all bent up or snapped.

Also made progress on the stuck ram pin. Ended up drilling out the set screw ( again no luck with the bolt extractor) and had to weld a big bar to the bolt to free it up. Much sweat and PB blaster later, it is free. Glad I took the time, there is definitely wear on the pin. I plan to replace it with a 4140 pin. 1 or 2 new set screws. This project will take a real hit since I am headed to Indiana for work, for 3 or 4 months.

20181007_100817.jpg

20181007_115913.jpg

20181007_135227.jpg

20181007_135338.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

More progress and a question. Painted the ram after cleaning it up. 

I am now debating if I should clean the driven pulley. It's got heavy rust on it that I think would provide great friction for the flat belt, but would also probably be abrasive. So I'm thinking about wire wheeling it, which should remove the rust but leave any light pitting for friction. Any have advice?

20181007_220921.jpg

20181008_101754.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Getting the pin out looks like it was a royal pain.  Yea... I would say there is some wear there.  Do you plan on re-bushing the toggle links to the new pin?

I would wire wheel the pulley and get any loose rust off; but I would not paint the inside of the pulley where the belt rides.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am still undecided about how to address the toggle links. Whether to replace or not, whether to re-bush (which is something I've never done, I understand it will insert a sleeve to reduce the hole size). They currently measure 13/16, and with the old pin having wear, there was significant slop there. If I just replace it with a 3/4 pin, it would tighten up when compared to the worn pin. What is not clear to me, is what is the appropriate amount of slop between the pin and toggle arms? Is 1/16 total Ok? Or should I think about replacing the toggle arms? Also, one of the toggle arms has a terrible threaded end. I can get a nut on it, but it's pretty bad.

Would be a fun forging project, a bit of a stretch for me which is the best way to grow.

20181008_121233.jpg

20181008_121238.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

At the very least the toggle arm with the messed up threads should have a proper sized die run on it to clean up the threads. Wire brush the loose rust off the pulley face and let the belt polish it up without painting it there.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Toggle Arm #2 from that pic looks like someone may have forged a replacement, and those threads on the one look like their worn down enough that the major diameter might be too small to get much bite even if you chase it with a die. If it were me, I would determine the original pin size and make a new one that size. Making new toggle arms would also be my preference via any method available.  The tolerances on the pin to the toggles need to be tight. .005-.010. You can use a reamer to achieve this or find a automotive machine shop that can put them on their rod hone. If you go the hone route take your pin so they can fit the toggles to it.  Mechanical hammers suffer from a terrible snowball effect. If you have half a dozen components that are at the high end of their tolerances it will combine to make the hammer run poorly. You want each component within spec so that when you hit the treadle it operates smoothly and predictably.

How do the toggle links fit into the bar that goes through the spring? Does the spring or that pin have any wear?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The bar that goes in the spring seems to have less than 1/32 slop. But it's hard to tell with it all apart. The bar to spring seems worse. You can see what appears to be wear on those.

When I got the spring pack apart, a significant amount of rust fell out before even cleaning them. If this is the original spring pack, not so much really for 100 years.

20181008_155130.jpg

20181008_155146.jpg

20181008_154804.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A good hour of wire wheeling later...

 

20181008_174247.jpg

I think this while spring assembly should just be finished with BLO, seems silly to paint it. I think paint would just rub off.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

From the looks of it, I would replace the bars in the spring as well if possible. Less slop means equal lengths, which means equal tension and a smoother running hammer. The spring pack looks healthy, BLO should be fine or wax.  I mix Johnson's paste wax with BLO for a lot of stuff.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now