Building a table for my forge

[Pr3ssure]

So I need to build a nice permanent table to place my forge in. I have access to basically an unlimited supply for angle iron in the form of bed frames. I was thinking about using that as the frame. Would that be sufficient? Also the firepot has the front and back pieces lower than the sides, so I need to think about how to to make it support all sides. I’m also not sure about thickness of the table too. Would a thick gage steel work or should I just go with quarter inch or bigger?

i already know about dimensions and all that that I’ll need just not so much the materials to use to make it.

Of all the things I’ve read online and in books nothing really covered making a nice table. 

 

Edit:

And as for what a budget is, I do have one but not so much as I want it done right the first time. I’m not trying to go all out with some giant brick setup but I want a nice solid table that will last, if it means paying a little more I can wait an extra week or two. I’ve been acquiring my setup for a little over a year. Just thought I’d add that. 

[Frosty]

Unless you're going to be forging really heavy things there is no, ZERO need for a heavy table bet, 1/4" is giant overkill! My large forge table is 48" x 48" (New guy overkill, way too large) and is 14 ga. with a couple pieces of angle iron across the bottom to stiffen it. The legs and frame are 2" angle iron and the rim around the table is flange up to form a rim. Nothing fancy, 4 legs, spreader half way to the ground and a couple hips, pieces at a 45* angle from table to leg. The 14 ga is plenty strong, I covered it in fire brick leaving two out around the air grate for the fire.

Like I said overkill across the board. It's WAY too large and the fire brick is completely unnecessary, an inch of packed clay would've worked as well. It's the first coal forge I made, full of ideas I had before I knew anything about coal forges. 

We all do that kind of thing so don't be upset of someone says an idea won't work or isn't worth the effort. I have LOTS of aren't worth the trouble things around you know. 

Frosty The Lucky.

[Irondragon Forge ClayWorks]

Talk about overkill for legs. When I built my forge in '84 I had an abundance of used grader blades the city gave me. I split the blade length wise and welded the sections to a 26 inch semi-truck rim cut down. The hearth table is a cast iron manhole cover ring that fit perfectly.  The tuyere & piping is 3 inch black pipe. It takes 3 men and a boy to move it but it doesn't weeble-wobble at all. and will be around when I'm long gone.

[Pr3ssure]

Alright, so 14 gage is sufficient then? That’s my main concern. Just didn’t know how thick to make it. Regardless it will have a frame supporting the firepot but I wouldn’t want it earring or burning. I didn’t figure it would though with thin sheet even. 

Thanks. 

Update: I need to get some pipe or flex pipe because that blower adds a lot of weight but it’s basically ready. I just need to cover the hole on the bottom of tuyere. Thinking about just using foil tape so I can make sure that their is enough air to get the metal hot. But I suspect there is. 

So excited

[Irondragon Forge ClayWorks]

Just build a stand to support the blower after your forge table is built and fire pot tuyere assembly are installed.

[Jim Coke]

Greetings Pr3ssure,

        I think you will find your blower has tooo much air .. I would suggest a rhostat to control the speed.  You could put some coal in it on a brick support and give it a try. I do not see the clinker breaker. The ones for that fire pot that I have seen have a boss that slides up in the airway. 

Forge on and make beautiful things 

Jim

[Pr3ssure]

It has the twist plate on the side luckily so I can close and open the air intake on it. 

But I would like to get a rheostat eventually. I forgot to pick up a light switch to wire to it, but I might have one around here somewhere. Would a light switch that’s a twist dimmer work as one?

I actually just put it up on this crappy table I had lying around, so I can at least try and start a fire in the morning. It might work temporarily.  

Will need to reinforce it sideways though so it doesn’t fall. Maybe just tie it down like a tent or something. 

[Jim Coke]

Greetings P3ressure. 

          One of my forges has the same basic set up   I use a simple wall switch and a rheostat so I can control the speed and an off and on switch..   Good luck on the first fire.. 

 

Forge on and make beautiful things 

Jim

[Pr3ssure]

Yeah, i'm super excited. I've been downstairs just looking and thinking. I hope I can fall asleep here soon. Otherwise I'm just gonna be up until 7am and start the fire then. I just don't like that I don't have any space around the firepot to make coke while the fire burns. I think I can make it work though. I'll take one my my steel plates and cover the rest of the table so I can at least have one side.

Thanks for the encouragement Jim and everyone else. This site has been my main resource from, I think blacksmithing is cool to I really want to try that, to I would love to do that for a living. Then realizing that's going to take several years of dedication and work. Although, I have yet to find something else that's sparked my interest this much other than driving and professional driving is far out of my price bracket to get into. 

Even if I can't make money from it eventually I believe I've at least found a life long hobby.

[JHCC]

Make sure you move the forge away from the sofa. Flying sparks are bad for the upholstery.

[Frosty]

6 hours ago, Irondragon Forge & Clay said:

Talk about overkill for legs.

Holy Moly, you win the overkill award of the evening, IDF&C! I have a short piece of grader edge I brought home with the intention of brazing it to an ASO someone just left with me years ago. I had to move the thing last weekend as it was in the way of burying the electric supply to the shop. Cursed it again, it's brutally heavy. I can NOT imagine making legs from the stuff or is it there to keep the shop from blowing away in a tornado?

11 minutes ago, Pr3ssure said:

Alright, so 14 gage is sufficient then?

It should be more than enough with a little cross bracing. I'd just turn the blower over so it's hanging down rather than up and mount it attached.

Can we get a look at the other side of the blower? There's a good chance it has screw holes in place to mount a choke plate so you can throttle the air blast. Counter to intuition blocking either the intake or outlet of a blower reduces the work the motor has to do to turn it so it'll run cooler. That one is also intended to draw air through the motor so it can't overheat. 

I have one of those old cast iron blowers and they are heavy but not too much with a hanger. Once you have it in place just run a strap down to one of the bolts or a screw hole in the blower housing and rivet it to the bottom of the table top. If it shakes while you're managing the fire or pieces install a second strap to a different location on the table, just drill and pop rivet it or use a sheet metal screw and you won't have to worry about removing clay or bricks on it.

Frosty The Lucky. 

[Kozzy]

There are some technical reasons*  that the typical light dimmer or similar set-up is not the best choice to do speed control on a motor, especially an old motor.  Lean toward using a choke plate or gate instead.  You'll likely be surprised how little the opening needs to be to get proper air.  On my similarly sized unit, the proper air is with about a 1/8" gap. Anything more tends to be too much air flow.

 

*  Most use a triac (or a pair of SCRs) which triggers in such a way that you don't get a nice sinusoidal waveform on the voltage output--you get a partial waveform with the SCR clipping the voltage harshly and abruptly. That's part of what causes the buzzing one often hears when they are used as dimmers. That can potentially cause eventual breakdown of the insulation on the motor windings and likely some over-heating of the motor at lower speeds.  Some people have no problems for years or ever, some fry the motor quickly.  Since that unit looks to have a motor that you can't easily replace off the shelf, it might be best not to risk it.

[Pr3ssure]

16 hours ago, Frosty said:

Can we get a look at the other side of the blower? There's a good chance it has screw holes in place to mount a choke plate

there are two holes on either side of the blower, I figured that's what they were for. I don't think they are centered though, a little towards the bottom. I will take a picture when I get home though.

 

16 hours ago, Kozzy said:

There are some technical reasons*  that the typical light dimmer or similar set-up is not the best choice to do speed control on a motor, especially an old motor.  Lean toward using a choke plate or gate instead.  

Yeah, it seems with it just barely cracked it get's a lot of air to it. I'd say I will want a choke plate for better control because it does seem like a fine line between enough and too much.

[Jim Coke]

Greetings P3ressure, 

               You are getting lots of advice from some of the finest.. Another suggestion is to start your forge with some charcoal than add coal a little at a time to make up coke..  I must know it’s my real name .. LOL

Forge on and make beautiful things 

Jim

[rockstar.esq]

I would second Kozzy's advice about the dimmer control.  Mechanical control over the airflow is faster acting, and it's more precise.  Motors can have a wandering effect with dimmers where they drift faster or slower after any change is made to the dimmer.  Restarting the motor at a reduced voltage can spike the current running through the motor which generates excessive wear through heat.

Considering the places a forge is likely to be used, I would strongly recommend that you connect the blower to a GFCI protected receptacle.  Make sure the cord and plug are sized properly to suit your blower, and whenever in doubt, have an electrician do the work.  Insurance claims adjusters have been known to deny unrelated coverage claims (like say, flood damage)  when they find unlisted devices connected to the homes electrical system.  Be advised that insurance agents have taken to searching their clients social media accounts looking for anything that might allow them to deny a claim.  

As a Journeyman Electrician, I can tell you that your current cord and plug is not OK at all.  The entire thing needs to be electrically grounded because that motor is not double insulated.  If you lived closer to me, I'd happily help you out.  Anybody know a good sparky in West Virginia that could help?

[Jim Coke]

Greetings P3ressire,

              You are getting a lot of advice on the electrical hook up for your blower for speed control . I’m sure the fine folks have much more knowledge than myself ...  My blower. Has been working for years but I did not have access to the vast knowledge on this sight .. ( great folks) .  The original blower had a selective exposed contact resistor selection which mine had and I exchanged it with a veritable switch . Better safe than sorry.. Again good luck on first fire. I wish you lived closer I have a complete table ( Heavy duty ) that is all set up for a wirlwind fire pot that you would be welcome to for zip.. 

Forge on and make beautiful things 

Jim

 

[JHCC]

A sliding gate valve is a great way to adjust the blast without messing with that fancy ‘lecticcity stuff. You can easily install one between the blower and the tuyere. 

[Frosty]

7 hours ago, Jim Coke said:

up coke..  I must know it’s my real name .. LOL

Oh come on Jim try, it's a breeze to remember. 

Frosty The Lucky.

[Pr3ssure]

14 hours ago, Jim Coke said:

You are getting lots of advice from some of the finest.. Another suggestion is to start your forge with some charcoal than add coal a little at a time to make up coke.

Yeah, I might try that. Trying to light my coal earlier was a failure. It's anthracite from lowes, it just didn't want to start. Also most of these guys have been here since the beginning of my learning. Everyone is very helpful, well when you don't ask stupid questions at least. lol I consider myself lucky having access to things like this, it's an invaluable resource. Same as youtube, I learned to lay carpet last month when my mom started tearing up her living room and told me it was time, so I had to figure it out one way or another.

11 hours ago, JHCC said:

A sliding gate valve is a great way to adjust the blast without messing with that fancy ‘lecticcity stuff. You can easily install one between the blower and the tuyere. 

I'm gonna try and figure out a way to install one in the blower. I forgot to take pictures of the holes to show earlier. Otherwise I'm gonna have to figure out how to install one between blower and tuyere. Which may actually be better because the bolt holes don't exactly line up on the two so I'm probably going to get some flange and pipe or flex pipe. Also it will take a little weight off the forge itself and I can mount it separately.

[JHCC]

6 hours ago, Pr3ssure said:

I'm gonna try and figure out a way to install one in the blower.

Check out my thread on my homemade gate valve. Even if you find a commercial one for cheap, it may help give you some ideas.

[Pr3ssure]

So earlier today I was getting some marble tiles off my neighbor and I had asked him about a piece of steel he had that was a little under a quarter inch thick or so, he said I could have it. I continued on about how now I just need to build the table and I’d be pretty well set. So he says meet me by the basement door and he shows me this. 

On it’s side it’s right about knuckle height, I have some wheels that my dad found in a dumpster at a factory beside his work. Their like 6 inch dumpster wheels basically. I’d like to put bearings in them and set them up on this table and it would be perfect height I think. Either way it’s just what I wanted. Maybe a little small but plenty big to say the least. I didn’t measure but I’d say the way it is it’s about 30 inches wide by 42 or so inches long at around 30 high. 

The plate he gave me is plenty big to cover it all and he’s even going to help me cut the hole out with his torch set tomorrow. 

Turns out my neighbor is a great guy. (Fairly new neighbor) I’ve never had neighbors here before, there used to be a golf course but it closed and they moved in. 

[Pr3ssure]

Got the hole cut earlier, neighbor even gave me some nice wheels to put on it. Can kind of see one in the corner. 

[wpearson]

 

your blower has a air adjustment in this picture just screw it in.

[Pr3ssure]

I know, but from what others are saying the control with that air gate isn’t as easy to get the flow you want. I also want a rheostat so I don’t have to run it at full power when it’s on, it’s an old blower and it was not in working condition when I got it. So I would like to keep it running. Also between a rheostat and an air choke I think I could get both for free or cheap and installing would probably be a breeze. 

[Frosty]

Who is saying a throttle plate on a blower is hard to use? That's bull, what you have in the above pic is far easier to control than a rheostat. There are problems with rheostat controls: First in my opinion is they turn electricity into heat so whatever it's "controlling" is running on less power than it should. This is HARD on motors and the rheostat gets HOT, sometimes hot enough to light things on fire. Then, as it gets hotter it's resistance changes so you have to keep adjusting it to keep things even.

The throttle plate being on a screw allows you to adjust it micrometrically and the flow will stay there until you change it even if it's a week later, it'll be right where you set it. If you close it all the way the only air that'll pass is what is drawn through the motor to cool it, this will put a whisper of air to your fire. That's a far superior air control. Like any new craft you'll need to use it to get to know it but that air control is what the manufacturers put on it and they had rheostats in the day. People made their living with these tools and poor ones wouldn't sell.

Your neighbor set you up nicely, that's going to make an excellent forge. A rim around the edge to contain coal will be an improvement, leave spaces in the rim where the gaps in the fire pot are so you can lay long work in the fire's sweet spot.  Were I you, I think I'd be offering to do work for your neighbor. Just offer, don't mention doing it in exchange for his gifts and help, just offer him a hand any time he needs one.  

Frosty The Lucky.