Bottom of Champion tuyere

[Pr3ssure]

So the bolt that holds the round plate to the bottom of my tuyere just broke off. I’m going to try and get it out with an extractor but if that doesn’t work I’m thinking my best option is to just drill it out and tap it.

im wondering though if there is anyway to turn it into an ash dump with a flipper. Instead of it just turning. Or would too much air come out?

the bolt sticking out on the left is the one that broke off

[Jim Coke]

Greetings Pr3ssure, 

            Don’t bother with an extractor,   ( EZ Out ) ..    It would be best to grind the bolt off than drill an tap for a new one .  What I have done in the past rather than a bolt ( 1/4 / 20 )  I use a stud with a double nut and washer. The area for ash is plenty big and only requires dumping after several hours of operation .  Just this ol boys suggestions.  Good luck . 

Forge on and make beautiful things 

Jim

[Frosty]

Ditto Jim, EZ Outs are more hassle than good unless you just MUST use one. Grind them off and give them a LIGHT tap with a pin punch, they should pop right out, do NOT beat on them in case the tuyere flange is threaded. I've never seen a threaded one but you never know, someone might have modified it. 

Don't over think this stuff, KISS rules. 

Mine has an "after market" ash dump that's just a sliding gate running in a couple bent tabs. I'd much rather have a hinged dump. If I burned more coal I'd buy a diesel truck exhaust flap cap and clamp it on. They come in a LOT of sizes and clamp to the exhaust stack on trucks. Easy Peasy and work a treat.

Frosty The Lucky.

[anvil]

2 hours ago, Frosty said:

I'd buy a diesel truck exhaust flap cap and clamp it on.

Excellent idea!

[Pr3ssure]

Yeah, the extractors always break on me, hence why I’d have to buy one. So I’ll probably just drill and tap. The bottom of the tuyere is threaded, not the part that connects to the pot though. To get those out I had to soak in PB blaster and break loose some rust and I tapped em out. 

Mill have to see about the exhaust flap. Might work. 

[Steamboat]

9 hours ago, Frosty said:

...I'd buy a diesel truck exhaust flap cap and clamp it on.

I also like Frosty's idea. Note that your cast-iron tuyere appears to have a bit of taper to it, so if you decide to use a clamp-on exhaust rain cap, you could further secure it by drilling some  holes through the exhaust cap's clamp band and into the tuyere, and then tap the holes in the tuyere so that you can install some screws to help secure the clamp band to the tuyere.  Also note that since you would be using the exhaust rain cap upside down, you would need to add some weight to the cap's counterweight to keep the cap closed, since the weight situation is reversed, but that's very easy to do; just drill a hole through the counterweight portion and bolt on some washers.

What is the exact outside diameter of the ash-dump end of the tuyere? Is it nice and round, or is it oval shaped?

Al (Steamboat)

[Pr3ssure]

It’s pretty well round I believe. Without going and measuring I’m gonna say it’s about 4 inches around. I do like the idea of it though. Might make an easy way for a flipping ash dump rather than having to turn a cap every time. Either way it’s just convenience I don’t need but will try to aquire soon enough. Need to make a nice sturdy table first though. 

[Frosty]

Al: The first time I used a flap cap ash dump I made it and added weight but it's not necessary. When on a truck the weight counters the weight of the cap so it'll open, when inverted under a tuyere it holds it shut nicely unless too much ash piles on it then the air blast opens and blows it clear. I recommend you keep a bucket under it to catch the . . . stuff.

If it doesn't want to stay on a Champ tuyere you could use high temp silicone gasket goop and stick it on, that part of the tuyere seldom gets too hot to hold by hand. It always has air blowing through it and it's as far from  the fire as it can be and still be attached to the pan or fire pot. I made the first one but get this, I . . . copied one from the scrap bin at work instead of just using that one. 

Frosty The Lucky.

[Steamboat]

Frosty, the counterweighted exhaust rain caps (flap caps) that I've seen and used will fall open if mounted upside down, as demonstrated in the photos below, since taking geometry and weight distribution into account, the cap side of the pivot is effectively heavier than the counterweight side of the pivot. If you added enough extra weight to the counterweight side, it would keep the cap closed when mounted upside down. A handle extension could be a good way to add that weight.

Al (Steamboat)

[Pr3ssure]

if I were to use the part with the hole and attach a piece of flat bar or something do you think it would keep it closed? Or would I have to modify the entire pivot point as well. 

Btw: got everything put together minus cover the bottom of tuyere. Excited. Last time I’m posting these pictures though. Lol

[Steamboat]

Pr3ssure, if you're talking about adding a flat bar to a flapper valve to act as both a handle and a heavier counterweight, yes, you could do that, and you would not have to modify the pivot. You could, for example, drill a couple of holes in the counterweight area of the flapper and attach a length of flat bar with a couple of screws, as shown below. Just be sure that the bar is heavy enough to hold the flap closed against the air pressure and clinker buildup, and also make sure that you have full travel for the handle so that the flap will open all the way. You might find that attaching it at an angle as shown in the second image below would give you more clearance. You'd have to look at the geometry of the tuyere and firepot to make sure that it has full travel. To experiment with movement/travel, you could temporarily attach the flat bar with a small C-clamp.

If the bar turns out to be too light, you can always add weight to the end of it by bolting more metal onto it. I hope that was helpful.

Al (Steamboat)

 

[Pr3ssure]

alright, my tuyere is 4x 4 3/4 because it's semi oval and there's a spot where it is thicker with threads through it where to bolt was, so I figure I could get a 5 inch one and it should go tight enough. If not I have some leather I could use in between it and it would help seal it up. $25 on amazon.

Thanks for the help.

[Steamboat]

On 9/12/2018 at 2:06 AM, Frosty said:

If it doesn't want to stay on a Champ tuyere you could use high temp silicone gasket goop and stick it on, that part of the tuyere seldom gets too hot to hold by hand.

I used high-temp silicone gasket maker compound to seal the air gate of my forge where it attaches to the tuyere, and I know that particular part of the tuyere...at least on my forge...remains cool to the touch while the forge is running. My air gate is also secured to the tuyere via several extended point set screws, which reflects my design preferences. I haven't checked the temperature next to the ash dump door after using the clinker breaker. Next time I fire up the forge I'll check that.

Al (Steamboat)

[Steamboat]

You should be able to bend the clamping band of an exhaust rain cap into an oval shape fairly easily, so the oval tuyere shape is probably not a serious issue. I think you'd need a 5-inch exhaust rain cap to cover the 4-3/4" tuyere opening, but that might make the clamping band a bit too long, in which case you could either shim it or re-bend and drill the end(s) of the clamping band. Using leather as a shim is questionable (to me). If I needed a shim, I might use something like a piece of wood stove door gasket.

By the way, were you able to drill and tap the rusted-in screw? If so, assuming that there is enough remaining cast iron around the screw to be strong enough, you could consider just using a steel plate, a shoulder screw as a pivot, and a spring to hold the plate snugly against the bottom of the tuyere, in which case you could just rotate/swing the plate around the pivot screw.

Other approaches could also be used to make an ash dump door, depending on your tools, skill levels, etc. If I were doing this, I might construct a custom hinge bracket that could be mounted at the end of the tuyere via a couple of screws through the wall of the tuyere. That would probably not be too difficult to do, although it would require some careful measurements. For that matter, I suppose that the clamping band of an exhaust rain cap could be removed from the cap assembly and discarded, and then the cap assembly could be attached to the side of the tuyere with a couple of screws. Again, some careful measurements would be in order, and you would still have to add some extra weight to the counterweight. I guess my point is that there are lot of different ways of approaching something like this.

At least that might give you some ideas. 

NOTE: Just to avoid any confusion, I thought  I'd mention that in the images above where I drew in the added bars/counterweights, I flipped the photos upside down before drawing the bars in. That's because I wanted to simulate the flap being closed by the added counterweights. Otherwise, the flap would have been hanging open when held upside down without the added weights. 

Al (Steamboat)

[Pr3ssure]

I don't have a tap set right now, so I have to get one but there is plenty of material to do so once I drill it out. I've already drilled a little hole in the attempts of putting a screw in it to run it out the back but they just snapped. So I've got a good start on a hole to finish drilling it out and there should be at least a 1/4 inch all around for support once I tap it.

Also, should I try to invest in a nice tap and dye set or just go with a $30-40 cheap one to get the job done. It's something I know I will need in the future so I'd like it to last.

[Jim Coke]

Greetings P3ssure,

              Save your money for now on the tap set.. I suggest you buy the individual tap and for sure the correct drill size for tap..  When you buy the single taps they are usually American made.. You should also buy a quality tapping fluid. You are about to develop a new set of skills.. Just trying to help with your project with some advice from a good ol boy that has been there many times. 

Forhe on and make beautiful things 

Jim

[Pr3ssure]

Good advice, I didn't know they sold individual taps. I should have any size drill bit I need though. I've got at least 2 or 3 nice sets here. They have the singles at Lowes? 

[Daswulf]

Yup, they should have most common size single taps at lowes.