Jimmies Posted September 8, 2018 Share Posted September 8, 2018 So originally I was going to build a forge using a 7kg butane bottle but realised after cutting the lid off that It was probably going to be on the small side after 2in of ceramic blanket and then refractory...so I changed it to a cubed self build body of 30x30x40cm leaving a roughly 18x18x40 cavity. Ive built one of the two burners that will go into the forge and tested it. I've also formed a floor out of the refractory that can be replaced as needed. I've not fitted the burner yet and will decide on the best angle (with the advice of this helpful community) first before completing the welds. The refractory has been curing for nearly a day and I will then take it through a couple of low heat cycles before a longer burn and hopefully it will stay in one piece I look forward to any critique and advice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmies Posted September 8, 2018 Author Share Posted September 8, 2018 A gentle firing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmies Posted September 8, 2018 Author Share Posted September 8, 2018 A night time burn and a stand built.... might put some metal in tomorrow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted September 8, 2018 Share Posted September 8, 2018 You got the general shape of the forge right; taller than wider or deeper, so that your burner flames have time to be consumed before siminging on the floor, but you need to do more work on that burner. BTW I like your choice of reducer fitting. Would you like to tell us where you came up with it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MotoMike Posted September 8, 2018 Share Posted September 8, 2018 Jimmies It looks great to me. is the refractory done or will it receive further coating? Iike a wash of plistix or similar? I don't know if your set up allows for porches front and back to stack your fire brick doors to adjust your openings. I didn't do the conversions of your volume, is it good for one burner? Keep us posted on your progress. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmies Posted September 9, 2018 Author Share Posted September 9, 2018 Hi Mikey- it's just a stainless steel reducing socket, parts are quite difficult to source in the UK and there was only one company (jtm plumbing) that had these in stock. Regarding the burner I need to do some reading to understand firstly what is wrong and then how to address it. MotoMike- getting an IR coating of some sort in the UK is also not a easy thing for some reason. The ends will be finished with a porch at front and doors front and rear, initially with sliding insulation bricks on 'rails. I have the parts for a second burner ....I'm just in initial testing and I may also create a movable wall for the rear to reduce the cavity size down while i learn the basics Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted September 9, 2018 Share Posted September 9, 2018 Neither the length of your mixing tube or the flame nozzle looks off, so you might try reducing your jet diameter as the simplest fix. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmies Posted September 9, 2018 Author Share Posted September 9, 2018 I used a 1mm drill bit in a brass end cap....I had to use a hand drill as the chuck on my other drills would not grip the tiny drill bit. I was very inaccurate when creating the hole so I could have made the hole too big. I have some spares so I'll try again and be less hamfisted Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmies Posted September 9, 2018 Author Share Posted September 9, 2018 I've tapped a 0.6mm mig tip into the brass end cap....is this worse or better. The clip is it going from full power to lowest using a needle valve 20180909_091810.mp4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted September 9, 2018 Share Posted September 9, 2018 It is better. You are getting close. I know it isn't easy to pick and choose your MIG tip in the UK, but you can get by with a short tip by narrowing the discrepancy in part diameters and the diameter of the threaded part of the MIG tip. I have done this in the past with copper refrigeration tube, and even plastic tubing used as pipe fitting inserts. It is not hard because the internal insert has no need to seal against the tip. Also, your flame has come up to an acceptable level of efficiency now; just incase you don't want to keep fiddling Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmies Posted September 9, 2018 Author Share Posted September 9, 2018 I've used it to forge the 4 sections of flatbar that will hold my railway sleeper anvil stand together. I need to get the end doors sorted as I'm obviously losing alot of heat out of the ends. The refractory has held up perfectly with no shifting at all with the heat cycles. I wish I had preformed the hole for the second burner as the refractory is very tough.....not sure how I will now add in the hole for the second burner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted September 9, 2018 Share Posted September 9, 2018 A hole saw with encrusted carbide chunks, instead of teeth; they are cheap import items. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timgunn1962 Posted September 10, 2018 Share Posted September 10, 2018 The Carbide grit ones are harder to find and the diamond ones are so cheap now that it's not worth looking. The biggest difficulty I see is finding one with enough depth to take out the lining in a single core. Most of the cheapies seem to be intended for tile and don't have much depth of cut. You may need to go for a "proper" dry diamond core drill, in which case the biggest problem you'll face is likely to be finding the right size. What refractory did you use? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmies Posted September 10, 2018 Author Share Posted September 10, 2018 I'll seek out some drill bits and see what I can do....I'll get a hole in there somehow even if I have to patch repair afterwards The refractory is described as below "1600c rated Refractory Castable Cement/Concrete Medium graded and high density" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmies Posted September 17, 2018 Author Share Posted September 17, 2018 I've added a couple of insulation bricks to the back and added the burner holder to the frame and it has completely change the flame to way more yellow...is this worse or better than the previous flame? Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmies Posted September 17, 2018 Author Share Posted September 17, 2018 Just tried it again and it was completely different again......??? Changed nothing from the yellow flame on above Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buzzkill Posted September 17, 2018 Share Posted September 17, 2018 If I had to guess I'd say it probably has something to do with the flame in contact with the refractory material. It's not uncommon to get a yellow or orange colored flame due to that. My experience has been more of a gradual change to blue-ish, but if I were getting the forge temperature and atmosphere I was after I wouldn't spend a lot of time worrying about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MotoMike Posted September 17, 2018 Share Posted September 17, 2018 It looks like it is coming along. Have you run it long enough for the interior to really heat? Most I've seen will when up to heat be totally orange yellow. see how your flame is once up to heat? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmies Posted September 17, 2018 Author Share Posted September 17, 2018 Haven't done a long heat yet...still putting it together and haven't found it spot yet in the garage. Need to think where the forge, anvil and vice will go. Going to have to rearrange the workbench location probably too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted September 18, 2018 Share Posted September 18, 2018 You still seem to be getting a large tertiary flame, which I believe is going to give you a lot of scaling. How much is good enough in a flame is a personal decision, but when, and if, you get tired of the scale problem you will be right back to fiddling with your burner. I don't beleve you are that for from success on that score; a longer jet or a larger reducer and you would be there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmies Posted September 19, 2018 Author Share Posted September 19, 2018 I've gone for a longer heat at around 5 psi and it was a steady flame. Are there any views/opinions on the video below? It shows me covering and uncovering the air inlet on the burner. Also worryingly when fully open my psi gauge shows a reading of over 40psi !!...that seems high as my regulator is supposed to be a 0.5 to 2 bar 20180919_114615.mp4 20180919_114615.mp4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MotoMike Posted September 19, 2018 Share Posted September 19, 2018 there appears to be two videos the first does not play for me. the second is shot from a high angle and can't really see what is going on in the forge. as far as how it behaves when you cover the air intake, that is about what I'd expect. Mikey, can you expound a bit on the flame causing scaling? I was operating on the assumption that scaling would be caused by an oxidizing atmosphere and thought also that a bigger inlet bell would increase the oxidizing nature of the atmosphere. here to learn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HojPoj Posted September 19, 2018 Share Posted September 19, 2018 MotoMike, Tertiary flame implies that there's still additional oxygen present (or being drawn into the forge through leaks around the burner) that isn't combusted in the primary or secondary flame envelopes. With a tertiary flame present, that oxygen will have opportunity to react with the piece contained in the forge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmies Posted September 19, 2018 Author Share Posted September 19, 2018 What is it that you are descriving as the tertiary flame....what part of the flame am i looking for? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MotoMike Posted September 19, 2018 Share Posted September 19, 2018 3 hours ago, HojPoj said: ...(or being drawn into the forge through leaks around the burner)….. HojPoj thanks for the quick response. I find it hard to imagine air being drawn into the space between the mixing tube and the burner mount. I would think all your drawing would be through the burner as once it ignites there is great expansion inside the forge forcing all gasses out. ie dragon breath, and If a space exists between the burner and the mount, forcing it out there as well. If that is true, then how would increasing the burner available air by increasing the intake bell size solve this issue. I looked at it and thought that what is needed is more gas in the forge atmosphere so that all the oxygen is used up inside the forge creating a reducing atmosphere. I recognize that I may have it wrong and wait to be educated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.