Ouchmysciatica Posted August 27, 2018 Share Posted August 27, 2018 Oh boy here we go, my very first forge was from a #10 can from baked beans. Filled it with plaster of paris and sand and used a mapgas mix and torch to fire. #gross. Next was the 5 gallon air tank i filled with ceramic wool, attempted to seal it with refractory cement MRD. Not bad but was too opened and couldn't get it to temperature. Well hopefully the title is all I need. MRD is what I have in my area up here in xxxxx xxxx xxxxx humid Iowa. The wool is i cant remember the brand but i remember it 8# 1 inch that i wrapped 4x. Yup 4inch thick. Good ol` 20# propane tank Burner got complicated. I can't screw straight, xxx xxx xxxxx but aside from that this one seems sufficient. Let me know what yall think, I desperately want some input, tell me if It sucks, really, no joke. The plan is to fill the bottom with castable refractory cement as a firebrick. I'm not sure if this is going to be or not but to me it made sence at the moment. I was thinking to seal the wool with the furnace cement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irondragon Forge ClayWorks Posted August 28, 2018 Share Posted August 28, 2018 First mistake is the furnace cement, which is not refractory, but designed to stick bricks together in a stove/furnace. Have you read through the Forges 101 sticky? Have you ridgidized the wool? The burner experts will be along shortly to weigh in on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouchmysciatica Posted August 28, 2018 Author Share Posted August 28, 2018 I did, I thought maybe I could use the furnace cement as "rigidizer" but as I went through 6 other forums I'm glad I didn't proceed. Not to say I couldn't have found the same information here, I just wasn't able to get a straight answer, or I'm too dumb to notice or work this forum lol. Also I got some cat litter good natural claylump kitty litter. Not sure what to do with that yet lmfao. The digitizer is where I'm stuck, I know it's not absolutely necessary as to I planned to coat the entire inside with the refractory cement, but I would like to be sure that fiber isn't floating around as I'm huffing and puffing swinging a hammer! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted August 28, 2018 Share Posted August 28, 2018 Welcome aboard nervy guy, I'll TRY to remember not to pull your leg too much. There is a BIG difference between ignorant and dumb. Realizing when you're out of your depth and asking is NOT the mark of a dumb guy. It's human nature to try to figure things out, we all do it sometimes successfully. Rigidizer is cheap and easy. You can pick up "Fumed Silica" at plastic suppliers or Amazon. You can buy 8 oz of dry with a shelf life of . . . forever? You mix it with water and spray the blanket. Rigidizers do 2 important things, First it contains ceramic fibers so they don't drift off and end up in your lungs. Second it stiffens the blanket so it doesn't move under the hard refractory causing it to break up before it wears out. Did you read the bucket of "refractory" cement before you bought it? Is it unopened, do you have the receipt? You want a "Water setting, castable, high alumina, refractory" 3,000 f. is excellent and most recently Kastolite 30 li is REALLY popular. A forum member Wayne Coe sells small quantities for reasonable so you don't have to buy a 55 lb. sack for one forge. In our club, we'll get together and split a bag as we need it. Being in a club is a GOOD thing. A proper refractory is designed as a flame face, the parts of a furnace in direct contact with the flame and is intended to take physical abuse. It's THE stuff to use. Kitty litter works but it's down the list. For your floor fill that gap with blanket and scraps till it's level then plaster over it with a LITTLE more than 1/2" of castable refractory when you plaster the rest of the flame face with castable REFRACTORY. The bushing reducers in the burner are a problem, they introduce BAD turbulence that inhibits it's ability to induce combustion air. Check out "Burners 101" we do lots of talking about the hows and whys of burners. Pick one set of established proven plans and follow them. Modifying something before you know how it works isn't a recipe for success. Frosty The Lucky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouchmysciatica Posted August 28, 2018 Author Share Posted August 28, 2018 The castable refractory cement is dry and seems really good. It's just a "Add water" mix. Plenty there and I did some more reading here picked up on the flooring thank you frosty I added more inswool. Bad part is tho I'm broke, can't do anything more with the burner so as of now it's what I got, wish I would've picked up a 1 1/12 -3/4 bell reducer, instead of the bushing crap. ( reading up on Burners 101) on the hunt for fumed silica. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buzzkill Posted August 28, 2018 Share Posted August 28, 2018 The castable refractory cement you pictured is not really suitable for this application. It may last for a while and since you have already applied it there's not really any going back. For future reference though, things that are labeled as mortar or cement are for sticking things together, NOT for standing up long term as a flame face inside a hot forge. It may work out for you, but don't be too surprised if it degrades relatively quickly in your forge. Hope it works out for you, but what you've used is not in the same category as the high alumina insulating castable refractory that we heartily recommend here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted August 29, 2018 Share Posted August 29, 2018 Don't get in a hurry! I know you want to get going soonest but rushing only makes your mistakes permanent more quickly. If you use that refractory CEMENT as a flame face forge wall it WILL degrade much faster than it should. You'll have to replace it soon. Also it's a silicate refractory so if you do any forge welding the flux will turn it into goo. Do some more reading and take your time. If you really want to start hammering hot steel you might want to consider a JABOD and lump charcoal. It's an effective inexpensive forge and good fuel. Frosty The Lucky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouchmysciatica Posted August 29, 2018 Author Share Posted August 29, 2018 Thanks guys, slowin this waaaaay down Well, now the hunt begins for proper material. Refractory and rigidizer I havent used the cement because I didnt have decent rigidizer so, stepping back til I find some. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouchmysciatica Posted October 8, 2018 Author Share Posted October 8, 2018 Ok. Here its is not quite done but it's getting very close. Having a little trouble with the burner but that's probably due to the bell reducer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MotoMike Posted October 8, 2018 Share Posted October 8, 2018 I think you could screw a 1.5 inch coupler on that nipple you have welded to the tank. then you could drill and tap the coupling to accept some bolts (two rows of three) to place the burner in and position it for best effect. you could then probably fit a flare on the mixing tube made from one inch black pipe. the forge looks like it is coming along. good luck. M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouchmysciatica Posted October 9, 2018 Author Share Posted October 9, 2018 Hmm.. well, the flame is not very stable. Mike I'm not fully sure as to your instructions. You're right tho, it is a nipple welded to the outer forge body. The curious part I'm having trouble visualizing is this.. 2 hours ago, MotoMike said: you could then probably fit a flare on the mixing tube made from one inch black pipe. The coupling part was curious too, why not just drill n tap the nipple welded to the body? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MotoMike Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 Sorry Ouch the big reducer used as a flare, then being mounted on the exterior is not a design I've seen. I was thinking that a proven design would be a good place to start. many use a flare at the end. but one that fits close as a 1 inch pipe does over a 3/4. then flared out to about 1.25. attached are the plans for a Reil burner that shows the flare. Then once it is small enough it might into your welded nipple. I suggested the coupler because I did not think the existing nipple protrudes enough to get two rows of bolts positioned about an inch apart to give you an adjustable burner mount that is very secure. I'm not a burner guru which is why I aways suggest using a proven burner design. Your first one looks similar to some I've seen but not exactly and your last one looks similar to a Frosty T but not exactly. I think it is worth noting Reil's comments about stability and the flare and it's dimensions. Good luck. sorry for not being clear Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouchmysciatica Posted October 9, 2018 Author Share Posted October 9, 2018 OH!! I SEE NOW. The reason why the burners only look similar is the store where I live does not carry alot of the materials and parts the burners require. So i have to get more creative. Which is only fun when it works lmao. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MotoMike Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 I am sure those guys, Reil, Zoeller, Mike Porter, Frosty,Vullo, Cook Et AL, didn't make a great burner on the first go. I read enough to know they put a lot of time and experimentation into developing the hand full of burners that are sort of the standards. I know that lots of hardware stores will be a fitting or two lite. but in looking at just the parts you have there you are just a 1/4 inch nipple, and cap and a piece of 1 inch black pipe from building a Reil burner per the above plans. I don't know what is in the homage to Frosty T design, but you can't be far from building that "exactly" to the plans. I would pick one of the known proven burner plans and build it just as written. I know you'll get there. Where are you in humid Iowa, I'm in Humid Illinois, Savanna Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouchmysciatica Posted October 9, 2018 Author Share Posted October 9, 2018 Fort Dodge. I built Frostys, T Burner xxxx near exact.The only difference is I added the shut off 1/2" valve and 1/2" to 1/8" reducer. And that's because I dont have the money for all the rest. I had those on hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouchmysciatica Posted October 9, 2018 Author Share Posted October 9, 2018 Ok.. here's a few videos with the burner again. I have a few changes in mind for the forge mounting the burner is the major change but this is where it is now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John in Oly, WA Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 When testing your burner outside a forge, you NEED a flare on the end of the mixing tube to keep the flame from blowing off the end. The flare slows the gas/air mix down and helps keep the flame attached. Just slide a larger piece of tube or pipe onto the end of the mixing tube and you'll notice an improvement. Slide another even larger piece over the first larger piece and you have a stepped flare, and should see even more improvement. Everything you have so far looks good. Just need the flare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MotoMike Posted October 10, 2018 Share Posted October 10, 2018 You probably mentioned, but what is your regulator? I It just seems like you have too much pressure suddenly there to me. Good luck, there are experts around. M Excessive wasted blank spaces removed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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