JohnnyD13 Posted August 2, 2018 Share Posted August 2, 2018 Hello everyone.... My name is John Luminiello. I am 43 and located in central Jersey. Just wanted to say that I love this site and over the past year I have read through all of the threads that pertained to my interests. Just got around to finally joining the site. I am a professional firefighter/EMT (24 years) and Plumber (20 years) on my off days. In my spare time I stick/mig weld and fabricate steel (strictly the go to guy backyard mechanic), hunt and fish. I am married and have an 11 year old son. For over a decade I have been wanting to try bladesmithing doing all the research I can because everybody I know just does stock removal by me. I guess it's not real popular here in the northeast until you go further into Pennsylvania. I personally have a minut amount of experience. Like I said above I have been swarming all of the threads and I am sure I will have a bunch of questions later on. I am (RE)building my forge as we speak. Originally made it with 2 Venturi burners but once I saw John E's ribbon burner plans and Frosty's NARB I guess you can say it really peaked my interest. I really respect all the hours of testing and tuning you guys did to make a ribbon burner possible for the little guy. I'm in the process right now building a ribbon burner and forge. I have a few ideas that I wanted to test out to see if it makes a difference on the air fuel mixture and flame distribution. I'm just a noob with a few ideas I wanted to try because of my background. If for some miracle I come up with something and don't waste my time and steel I will let you know. Thanks again for the opportunity to join this site. Thanks to all the seasoned senior guys here offering their trials and tribulations to the new guys. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted August 3, 2018 Share Posted August 3, 2018 Welcome aboard John, glad to have you. Uh, you're 43, been a firefighter, EMT for 24 and a plumber for 20? Something just doesn't add up about you there. I read your whole post and you really had me primed for some juicy good newbie questions and then. . . Nothing, none? Teasing the curmudgeons already? What do you want to know? Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted August 3, 2018 Share Posted August 3, 2018 I know several EMTs on the VFDs who have day jobs as well. Some of those young whippersnappers can even walk and chew gum at the same time... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyD13 Posted August 3, 2018 Author Share Posted August 3, 2018 Frosty when I was 19 I became a volunteer did 4 years as a volunteer took the test to become career and got hired. Once I got hired I had a friend that owned his Plumbing business started carrying buckets for him and doing mule work learning the trade on my off days. As a fireman I work 24 hours on and have 72 hours off. So roughly have 5 complete days off a week to do plumbing if I choose. That's probably where things didn't seem to add up properly. 24-hour schedule is a pain but it is awesome when you have a second trade.. Thomas that's good to know and LOL. I have always been a jack of all trades master at none. My hands are my money makers. I didn't want to list everything and make it seem unrealistic but I started really early with cars... actually building a few engines in my garage including my jeeps inline 6 that came with under a hundred horsepower that I had dynoed at 260 HP and 480 to. I'm a very meticulous person always trying to get every bit of performance out of everything I do. Obviously being like this has its pros and cons. LOL Thank you guys for the warm welcome. Just trying to learn everything I can from questions that people already asked and hopefully give back somehow down the road.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHCC Posted August 3, 2018 Share Posted August 3, 2018 Welcome aboard! If you haven't yet, please READ THIS FIRST!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyD13 Posted August 3, 2018 Author Share Posted August 3, 2018 JHCC thank you. Yes sir I've been there. Ok Frosty here is a couple questions I did not see actually talked about in the forums that I visited. Forced air or the NARB seems like everybody likes 3 in square tubing with a 2-inch Inlet . Did anybody try to increase the plenum volume, shape and air inlet angle with the ribbon burner itself? I have seen people put the inlet into the ribbon burner at a 90 degree angle instead of straight on but that's about it . I have seen people use inch and a half for their air fuel delivery and it worked but everyone seems to stick with 2". Is there a reason or it wasn't broke so don't fix it? These questions I'm asking could not be found anywhere I looked. Everything is a tutorial on the how to build but nothing really explains why those particular sizes are used. Thanks... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted August 3, 2018 Share Posted August 3, 2018 Uh, HUH. You'll fit right in here. We're a very mixed company of: AT, OC, PTS, and who the heck knows what else things normal folk would consider disorders. If you've been silly or bored enough to read my posts you know I LOVE straight lines and puns so you won't be terribly surprised when I lead sort of serious threads astray. Ooooh, you've been typing while I was. You ARE going to fit in aren't you? Yes, people have been using multiple outlet burners for centuries, both types: gun (blown) and NA (Naturally Aspirated). How and or what plenum inlet has been used for centuries. Reading about the things on the internet IF you can filter through the useless junk marketers think "YOU MIGHT BE INTERESTED IN!!!" will tell you more than a boy can use. Before the internet turned the into the spammers(Adult) dream. At one time you could do a web search and learn useful stuff, now you have to wade through a deep fermented composting pile of marketing to MAYBE find useful things. YES, I hate social media and I don't hate much. Take a look at gas fired: kilns, glass blower's glory holes and tempering furnaces. That should get you off to a start. I've loved controlled fire all my life. What better place than a forge. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted August 3, 2018 Share Posted August 3, 2018 Welcome to IFI I see you didnt waste any time getting to know people here, Let me know if I can help you again ( I am the one from the facebook side of IFI) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyD13 Posted August 4, 2018 Author Share Posted August 4, 2018 Frosty lol thank you very much. I'm just applying the simple physics I know from the automotive end(same characteristics) Air fuel ratios, angles, diffusers, bellmouths ect... just looking to make it less turbulent going into the chamber and coming out the holes. I was reading that it is 9 times whatever the diameter pipe is for the length of the are fuel pipe going to the burner. I'm pretty sure I can cut that down to half or less with a static diffuser. I see a lot of guys live in Alaska and don't have access too many parts so I'm sure this would help them immensely. Like I said I'm just messing around with a few things actually using your idea with the wood block. If I think anything looks improved I'll let you know. Once I get to actually use the forge that's when I will look like one of the greenest greenhorns around. That's when you'll get your noob questions.. lol Steve thank you very much I appreciate it. As soon as I start heating Steel I will have a million questions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted August 5, 2018 Share Posted August 5, 2018 The 9:1 ratio is a long established ratio for linear inducers. Jet ejectors needed to be detuned to a bit over 50% to induce air within a flammable ratio. Putting a static diffuser in a linear inducer and shortening the mixing tube is like pulling the choke and thinking it''ll improve mileage. The only reason guys have to put a diffuser in a ribbon burner is because they're operating at way too high static psi. more outlets reduces the psi necessary for a smooth flow so a high pressure blower isn't necessary. However if you do have high blower pressure you have to diffuse the flow or it blows the outlets closest to it out. These things don't operate like an engine and no, there are NO venturies involved at all. Stop thinking carburetors, even though they mix fuel and air in a metered ratio they don't operate the same way. You're not applying simple physics correctly. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyD13 Posted August 6, 2018 Author Share Posted August 6, 2018 Awesome thank you very much for that info... Cleared up a lot. It's not a mixing issue I see now the length and diameter and why the sizes were chosen. Friction loss and back pressure ect... I appreciate all your time... Two more things, Mizzou is the castable refractory of choice for the burner? How hot does the actual plenum and air fuel piping close to the ribbon burner get? From what I was reading they said maybe a little warm is this true? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted August 6, 2018 Share Posted August 6, 2018 I use Kastolite 30, water setting, high alumina castable bubble refractory in my burner blocks now. The first one is Greencast 97 and it has a couple cracks, I just patched them with a little bentonite paste. I'm not familiar with Mizzou but it's a good refractory folks have been making gas forges with it since it came out. The plenum shell shouldn't get very hot, I can touch mine though not for long. I've found the limiting factor in my burners is heat in the burner block, you have to keep enough fuel air mix flowing through it to keep it below it's flash point. Once it begins burning back you have to shut it off and let it cool a couple hours. If I keep the psi up around 5-6 lbs. there's enough flow to run it 4-6 hours. When I got the first NARB made I was so thrilled with how wide a stable psi range it had, stop to stop on my 0-20 psi regulator, I was running it at under 1 psi and that lasted less than an hour. The hotter it is the faster the rate of propagation of the mix to the point it's faster than the flow of the mix through the outlets after which it burns back into the plenum. In the plenum there is no directional flow, it's just spreading out to the outlets so once it burns to the plenum the whole burner lights up. On the scale we operate friction loss isn't an issue, balancing pressure, flow and velocity are the big three. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyD13 Posted August 9, 2018 Author Share Posted August 9, 2018 Thank you very much frosty. All your information was very helpful. I will let you know what happens. Have a good one. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sea Posted December 31, 2018 Share Posted December 31, 2018 On 8/2/2018 at 7:33 PM, JohnnyD13 said: Hello everyone.... My name is John Luminiello. I am 43 and located in central Jersey. Just wanted to say that I love this site and over the past year I have read through all of the threads that pertained to my interests. Just got around to finally joining thesite. I am a professional firefighter/EMT (24 years) and Plumber (20 years) on my off days. In my spare time I stick/mig weld and fabricate steel (strictly the go to guy backyard mechanic), hunt and fish. I am married and have an 11 year old son. For over a decade I have been wanting to try bladesmithing doing all the research I can because everybody I know just does stock removal by me. I guess it's not real popular here in the northeast until you go further into Pennsylvania. I personally have a minut amount of experience. Like I said above I have been swarming all of the threads and I am sure I will have a bunch of questions later on. I am (RE)building my forge as we speak. Originally made it with 2 Venturi burners but once I saw John E's ribbon burner plans and Frosty's NARB I guess you can say it really peaked my interest. I really respect all the hours of testing and tuning you guys did to make a ribbon burner possible for the little guy. I'm in the process right now building a ribbon burner and forge. I have a few ideas that I wanted to test out to see if it makes a difference on the air fuel mixture and flame distribution. I'm just a noob with a few ideas I wanted to try because of my background. If for some miracle I come up with something and don't waste my time and steel I will let you know. Thanks again for the opportunity to join this site. Thanks to all the seasoned senior guys here offering their trials and tribulations to the new guys. John John, I am also in Central NJ (Somerset) and have spent over 25 years as EMT and FF. Did you ever get your forge up and running again? I have a small 2 burner propane one and I am learning as I go when time permits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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