stevomiller Posted August 26, 2018 Share Posted August 26, 2018 Guys the motor plate shows it’s a reversible 7.5 hp SINGLE phase motor. Throwing it out there since quite a few have given suggestions related to 3 phase, osguessed some single motors are reversible this might be one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPH Posted August 26, 2018 Author Share Posted August 26, 2018 ok I am beat on this one.... When I broke it down I disconnected the cylinder lines A and B at the cylinder and labeled them..no way could these be reversed as line B is way too short to connect to the A port..so..that is not a problem..... I also disconnect the return line from the valve at the tank and the line to the pump at the tank as well.... These are two different sized hoses and can not be confused as the fittings will not interchange.... nothing else was disconnected as the motor/pump and lines were all moved intact with the valve. The electrical problem is no longer part of this as that has been removed from the problem...so..I hook everything back up nice and tight...fill the tank..let is sit a bit and fire it up...that's when the problems started...I solved the sparks and electrical stuff...now no flow out of the valve..I have circulation on the pump/motor side while the valve is neutral..that's all well and good...now I get NOTHING on the down line out to the cylinder on either port A or B... I mean this was working great before the move...so...I am beat..I tried reversing the lines from QA to B and B to A..nothing...put them back as originally hoked up... Tried jogging the valves (The new solenoid DOES have a override)...no good...still nothing..but I can feel the flow when I activate the valve...so where is this going??..I am fresh out of ideas... Anyone?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted August 26, 2018 Share Posted August 26, 2018 Contact the solenoid manufacturer Northman SHW-G03-C6-R120-10 as that was the only change and ask for their suggestions. They may have a way to test the solenoid to see if the solenoid is working properly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted August 27, 2018 Share Posted August 27, 2018 You say you can "feel" the flow till you activate the valve. Yes? Is that Hi psi into the valve and low psi to the return? At this point my thought is stuck bypass valve in the valve body. Junk can get knocked loose in a move and it tends to stick in the least good place. It's holding the bypass open and that circuit is the largest volume so the oil is taking the easy way to the tank. Also the bypass if the most used circuit in they system, they're usually or I should say often the path for the off position of the control valves. It has a spring relief built in so when a cylinder exceeds psi it opens. These jam frequently but you'll probably have to pull it to get the junk out. The controls are spool valves if I'm not wrong and which circuit the oil takes depends on where the single spool is in the body. It's easy for dirt to mess them up. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPH Posted August 27, 2018 Author Share Posted August 27, 2018 OK called Northman this AM and it is a bad valve..they had a new one waiting for me in Tampa and now that is in...I get cycling...now I get to run my circuits to make sure everything is still good...at least I have the schematics that I drew up when I first built this thing...(the plans are in my 4th book BTW)..having a huge thunder/electrical storm now so I am signing off for the duration.. JPH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted August 28, 2018 Share Posted August 28, 2018 Glad to hear you got it working. New parts have failures and tend to be the last thing you check, cause they are new. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPH Posted August 28, 2018 Author Share Posted August 28, 2018 Hello: Well that was the case here.... Now I have a gremlin living in my electrical..the 220/240 is 100% fine..but for some reason I am not getting and juice to the solenoid so I will be spending the rest of this afternoon with a voltage meter running that pesty gremlin down.. JPH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPH Posted August 29, 2018 Author Share Posted August 29, 2018 Update: well I got that pesty gremlin...had a couple of loose wires behind the relays...so it is running... now it seems that the pressure gauge as well as the over-pressure valve are no longer functioning... Now I know I have pressure...A LOT of it so this time this should be a easy fix... more as things progress.. JPH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted August 29, 2018 Share Posted August 29, 2018 Better to find and chase down problems now then when in the middle of a production run. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPH Posted August 29, 2018 Author Share Posted August 29, 2018 Glenn: You got that right.... as it is I have been out of work since last December and this is so close to getting everything up that I can smell and taste it.. Tomorrow in the the AM I will be getting my benches sorted out and ready as well as getting the last of my tooling where it should be... I just need to get back to work..FINALLY....and this will be a major relief... I will be posting studio pics in a little bit once I get this sorted out... JPH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted August 29, 2018 Share Posted August 29, 2018 Jim: Do you have a filter in the circuit? All these valve gremlins are sounding like crud got stirred up in the move. You COULD empty and flush the tank then flush the whole system but clever crud can hide almost anywhere. A fresh filter is cheap headache relief even if you have to plumb a place for a canister. You know my keyboard has been dry for a long time, I need some pics to drool over. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPH Posted August 30, 2018 Author Share Posted August 30, 2018 Frosty: I have two filters..one on the out line to the pump and one on the return line from the cylinders....When i moved I drained the tank and when we got here I drained and flushed the whole system as well as filling it with new fluid...boy that stuff is getting $$$$..so the system is pretty clean.. I just want to get this done and all so I can finally get my old carcass back to work...The missus is looking at a knee replacement so I am going to need to get some serious stuff done... So as soon as I get the tweeking and all done on my studio set up I will be posting photos.. JPH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 Well, that runs me out of ideas not being able to lay hands on the system. You took about all the reasonable precautions, I don't know what else you could've done. Hydraulic fluid is getting expensive alright but the new synthetics work better and last longer. How many gallons does your press take? I'll keep my thinking cap handy, just in case. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPH Posted August 30, 2018 Author Share Posted August 30, 2018 Frosty: The tank capacity is right at 25 gallons...plus about 3 gallons for lines and the cylinder..I got an extra 5 gallon bucket just in case I need more...the best price I found was at our local Rural King down out towards Weekee Wachee ...I got the heavy duty stuff and $35.00ish for 5 gallons plus I added some Lucas hydraulic booster as well...so I am set fluid wise.. I should have this sorted out in a couple more days..I hope... JPH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swedefiddle Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 Good Morning, Guys running equipment in the Bush, MUST use vegetable oil in all the equipment. Crawler Tractors, Excavators, Feller-Bunchers, Processors, Forwarders, etc. Nobody dares to not use vegetable oil. They buy it by the 45 gallon drum. French Fry smell, in the bush, NOT!!!!!! Neil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 That's a lot of fluid Jim, good. A large reservoir helps keep the temp down. We had to run pretty thin oil in the drills due to winter work. DN 600 synthetic was the HOT stuff last time I turned a wrench on one of our rigs and we bought it by the 55gl drum. What I remember is it was non-toxic and maintained operating properties from -60 f. to +300 f. EPA requirements have changed a lot in the last 25 years, I have no idea what they're running now. . . . I just checked, I don't want to know, I don't want to get within pistol range of a foundations drill rig. NO, I'm not talking about shooting or getting shot at, I'm just talking about distance, it's an old timey term. Probably 100-200 yds, maybe. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPH Posted August 31, 2018 Author Share Posted August 31, 2018 Frosty: That Lucas treatment helps to keep the temp down as well as being an anti-foam agent.. It is running but I am not all that keen of using it until I get that overpressure valve problem eliminated..The last thing I want is a busted hose or a cracked valve plate spraying hot oil all over with a burning forge going. That could get to be a bit exciting and not in a good way... JP (back to setting up my work benches) H Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 Absolutely, you can't allow over pressure in a hyd. system, with or without a forge burning, having it injected through your hide is a BAD thing. I do have to admit filling the shop with atomized hyd oil with a forge burning would be more exciting. It'd be over a lot faster though, seems hyd oil isn't expelled by the human body so well. Yeah, I'm saying back to work myself. A club member and I split almost 2 cord of wood yesterday and I have a back hoe for the Labor day weekend, that's 4 days use for 1 day's rental and delivery. I'll be able to take my tie but I have a long list. If nobody hears from me for a couple days mark them on your calendars, the lazy fat guy is actually working! Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPH Posted September 5, 2018 Author Share Posted September 5, 2018 Hello!!! OK I replaced the overpressure valve and the gauge and well...they both don't work!! I am beat on this...the gauge is not reading any poressure at all and the over pressure relief valve doesn't do anything...so...suggestions or is it time to call in a pro?? JPH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 Yeah, time for a pro, Bro. You really don't want to start taking the pump apart while I try to talk you through it from the far side of the continent. last thought, Is the motor taking a load when you pull the lever? Without being able to lay hands on it, it's got me beat . It could be a stuck valve or worn seat in the pump or a couple other things say a scratched vane or seal . . . or? Replacing parts one by one while we guess at the next possibility is wasting time and money. Luck shouldn't be a trouble shooting technique if avoidable. I worked on a different scale systems, the drill rigs and the casing jacks. The casing jack systems were probably the closest, a large tube hydraulic cylinder with a hole through the center (the tube) and a 5 hp gas engine on the pump and reservoir. The big difference is not having an auto return control valve but that's literally just changing the valve component. Basically you pull the lever and it goes up, slips wedge against the casing and it pulls, the geologist reads the PSI. and notes how many tons it takes to get the casing moving. Not fast but 10,000 psi. on 49 sq/in is some grunt. The large (80 ton) jack was always a problem so one of the northern region crews just left it in our shop and told us we could have it. I changed the engine from a 5 hp. Briggs to a 9 hp. Wisconsin Robin and put a horizontal pump on it. It would effortlessly break 4 1'2" Heavy wall casing. Great hack and heck it was smaller than the 50 ton jacks. Sorry for all the useless reminiscing, visualizing the problems you're having is taking me down memory lane. Take it to the hydraulic shop, or have a tech come out. It's probably something simple, heck everything in a hyd. system is simple, it's gotta be. Not saying the fix will be cheap just simple. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPH Posted September 5, 2018 Author Share Posted September 5, 2018 Frosty ... OK the press works...I can squish anything that I can get between the dies...I get the pressure but I simply do not get a pressure reading on the gauge at all...and the over [pressure relief valve isn't opening when the pressure goes above what ever point I have it set to.. Oh I can use the press by ear and I can tell when it is starting to over load but that is not safe at all... Everything works ..the limit switches...the foot pedal...it raises the cylinder to the upper limit switch when I step off the pedal like it is suppose to...the press works it's just not safe... So it's time to call in a pro...I am out of ideas.. JPH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeaverNZ Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 JPH From what you are saying and the fact it works now but the saftey and the gauge dont work I think you may have the control bank plumbed the wrong way round, the outlet and inlet swapped. have a look at the valve bank and on the outlet spigot there is often a letter T for Tank cast in it other than that take it to an expert Cheers Beaver Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPH Posted September 6, 2018 Author Share Posted September 6, 2018 Howdy!! Well..ya all ain't going to believe this..but it is working...I was so nail spitting FRUSTRATED that I just smacked it with a hammer and well..it works??!?>?I have no idea but I have been running it for about 10 minutes now and it cycles and the overpressure valve kicks in at 3200 PSI ish like I wanted it.. Nothing is leaking and all is right with the world at least press wise.. Now I have to clean up all that mess.. sheesh..but I am now 100% set yup./.just some clean up and I will be back to work full speed probably tomorrow. THANK YOU all for the help and suggestions...I really appreciate that.. JP ( I got the press running) H Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHCC Posted September 6, 2018 Share Posted September 6, 2018 The audience cheered, But some of them cried, "We just don't understand." "What changed its' worth?" Swift came the reply. "The Touch of the Masters Hand." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Shimanek Posted September 6, 2018 Share Posted September 6, 2018 An old saying in the repair industry is that if a hammer can't fix it, it is an electrical problem......true story Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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