A little help.

[Hans Richter]

Hi Aric, very sad to read this and to know you don’t feel happy. You are a very busy men with so much activities and an totally changed family situation. Even most of the activities and situation are nice to undergo it will bring some stress and maybe it helps to slow down a bit.  

I know the ‘head game’ very well and all those thoughts jumping from on situation to another, leading in some case to negative thoughts you dive in deeper and deeper. You/I have to know (over and over again) its fantasy and don’t have to happens in the future, reset your mind to the present moment and the things you busy with now.

Except pills and psycho pharmacy there is also mindfulness-training to help to reset your overactive brain or bring it back to a lower gear. I presently start this meditation many night I couldn’t fall asleep because my brain is hyperactive to ‘rework’ the past day.

Talk to the shrink and have a good advice, my thoughts are with you and your family.

Sincerely, Hans   

[Tubalcain2]

Hey, Das. Having recently gone through (and still coming out of) an ultra miserable period of my life, this is the best i can give you from what i have learned. 

Personally, I would stay away from doctors and more specifically their drugs, but that is just the way I am. The drugs might alleviate the symptom, but they cant eliminate the spiritual/mental root cause.  

Dave Ramsey often says that if you want to get ahead financially, you should stop taking financial advice from friends that are broke. Same applies here. if we wan't to get over depression, we can't take advise from people who are always depressed. instead, we need to talk to someone who has fought the battle and won.

Find someone older than you who has there there life together and ask them mentor you. and when i say ''has their life together''  i don't mean someone who has a fancy car and a nice house. find someone with a servant's heart who's family is close and strong. Who loves his wife and kids out the whazoo. Who follows God wholeheartedly, is industrious, and preferably, who has gone through a bunch of crap and overcome it. It seems most people like that have.  

Be vulnerable with him, ask him questions, and pray with him. It sounds ridiculously simple, but when I started talking over my crap with someone who had been through the same junk and overcame it was when my  situation started turning around.  

Drugs will make you situation less painfull, but they won't get you out of it. Ain't nobody yet had their life turn around 'cause they got hooked on a new medication.

Above all, don't loose hope. 

God loves you brother.

                                                TC2

 

[Charles R. Stevens]

Tho buy and large I agree with TC2, some one who has been there and come out the other side stronger for it is very helpful, infact the older couple mentoring the younger couple is a great thing because they can share the times and places were they were close to giving up, but with mental health and life in general every persons life is different. 

First a solid assessment buy a psychologist (the mental health doctors who can’t right prescriptions) coupled with an evaluation buy a psychiatrist (the MD who specializes in mental illness) will help us figure out what we are dealing with. And less we forget some times symptoms of mental illness can be very much symptoms of real physical ailments (autoimmune diseases come to mind) so our primary care physician is a very important member of this team of experts. 

These are the peaple that due to training and experience who can figure recommend to you a minimally invasive treatment program. Now I myself have a nice little set of problems, Type II bipolar illness, PTSD, ADD and aperantly dyslexia. Any of these conditions can lead to depression, disphoria and mixed states. Yes, even the “learning disabilities” so it realy dose take a psychologist to untangle this xxxx. 

Now a psychologist or masters level therapist is going to be able to teach you coping strategies and techniches to manage your symptoms. Some of them seem weird, counterintuitive and down right dumb. Relax, first off your highfunctinal (intelligence is both a blessing and a curse here) and many of these techniches are taught to the least common denominator, so even if it seems childish, ask them to explained the theory behind it so you can adapt the inner conversation to you. Some are breathing techniches, some simple exercises, other are mental exercises and techniches to distract the brain from an unhealthy and well worn track to another. Sure with time and motivation you might figure it out on your own but your family doesn’t have time for that. Let the profetinals who are working with a hundred years of experimentation and empirical evidence help you learn faster. 

As to medication, it can indead be a two edged sword. Side effects are always a possibility, and in the beginning common. With mental illness they just can’t take blood, a bit of spinal fluid and shine a light on the back of your scull and acual see the problem (yet). The fact is many things can cause the same symptoms, so one medication doesn’t fit all. Personally, don’t exept severe sidefects, and don’t exept over medication. Sure they like to come on strong in the beginning to get things under control, and that’s fine but the goal is to reach a point where you have the skills to manage your illness with the least amount of medication practical. One must realize that one may never be able to be the husband and father you want to be with out medication and even if you can, medication in the beginning can give you the breathing space you need to learn those skills to manage the depretion and other symptoms. 

Sadly, you can’t will it away, simply being stronger, more disciplined, etc. won’t make it go away. Nor, I am afraid will prayer. It certainly can help for you to get on your knees and pray, at a minimum it is a form of meditation and will reduce your stress levels but despite what well meaning peaple may tell you it isn’t enough. We were given big brains to develop modern medicine, and despite how good it is for our souls, if prayer would cure you, we would never have needed to develop psychiatry. It took me a good solid year to figure that out and knuckle down and start learning how to manage my conditions. 

Lastly, relationships can be delicate things. Feed and care for them and nothing seems to faze them, but other time it seems like the least little thing can poison them. Mostly it’s our own negetive self talk that starts it. 

Your relationship is dealing with a new baby, this changes the dynamics compleatly. Add to that the stress off 2 am feedings, nightly diaper changes, fussy babies and simple fear you are doing/going to do somthing wrong generates huge amounts of stress for mom and dad. Add to this the fact that post party depresion is a real thing (hormonal changes coupled with stress). This straines a relationship. Couple that with the difrence ways men and women tend to deal with it. Momma gives the baby 100%, neglecting herself and Dad works harder to see that his family is provided for. Makes perfect sense, exept that mom needs dad to focus on her, spend time with her, take the baby and make her take time to recharge. On the other hand we men are of delicat egoes, and we need mom to convince us that love isn’t a zero sum game, and that the baby isn’t competition for our wives love. The more you love the more you have to give.

now add to the chalages of caring for a relationship, the stress and upheaval of bringing a child into your lives to your mental health issues. We talked about this before, we talked about how this was going to be a chalange. I even think I advised you to seek profetinal help sooner than later. Now you are at the beginning of what can be a viscous cycle. Stress makes your symptoms worse, which puts strain on your relationship with your wife (and sooner or later your child) not knowing how to help you puts stress on your wife, which ousts strain on your relationship, this just increases your stress level making your symptoms worse. Eventually it grenades under the strain.

so to avoid this, because I know you are a good man, a man who loves his wife and child with all his heart you suck it up and get help (which you are doing) you go to that wife of yours, hat in hand and tell her you love her and you know it isn’t her fault you feel this way, and you want her to know that your seeking help. Let her know that it’s hard for you to do so and you need her to help. Now you let her know how (going to couples counseling and even seeking a mentor cuple threw your church). This isn’t going to be easy brother, but I know that they are worth it. I can tell you from experience, other peaple don’t understand, the closest they get is greif. Even when intulecualy you understand, some times your heart still doesn’t get it. Intulecualy I understand Sandy’s Schizophrenia and anxiety, but it’s hard sometimes becaus I don’t “feel it” I can relate the delusions to waking dreams/nightmares and the anxiety to fear but I still don’t feel it. So when I get frustrated I have to stop and think about what I have learned about her illnesses and how to help her manage them (much from my therapist) now as she also exhibits mania, depresion and PTSD she “feels it” when I get sideways, but it is still not easy not to take it personal. 

So after this long rant, you need to get profetinal help for the sake of your family and your self. It isn’t going to be enough to just get help for your self, your wife is going to have to get help to learn to live with you and the two of you need help to learn how to turn your situation into a healthy dynamic Unique to your relationship. 

To this end many pastures have gotten themselves qualified as counselors, and many churches have mentoring programs for couples but when mental health issues are part of the mix you both need more. A masters level therapist, even just for a year can help the two of you make this into a strength instead of a weekness.

 

 

[JHCC]

^^^^That. Every blessed word (even the misspelled ones).

[JustAnotherViking]

Well said Charles

[Frosty]

On 7/26/2018 at 6:07 PM, Daswulf said:

Sorry fo rambling

Never be sorry for rambling at us Das, we're here for you and talk is important for looking into yourself. It's like learning the blacksmith's craft, teaching someone else makes us explain why we do a thing THIS way. Self examination is a good thing, beating yourself up is self destructive. So examine yourself, bring it to us and ramble. We're here for you Brother.

Frosty The Lucky.

On 7/27/2018 at 1:58 AM, JustAnotherViking said:

One best left to the experts to properly diagnose and treat accordingly 

You should apply this statement to your self. Your blanket statement to use meds is a pretty good example of what Dunning Kruger were talking about. What are YOUR credentials?

[JustAnotherViking]

I think you may have misinterpreted what I was trying to say.

It was not supposed to be a blanket statement that people should use meds.

I was trying to make the point that people with a real medical need can be judged too harshly and people should be more conscientious of jumping on the bandwagon of medication is bad full stop.

As to my own credentials/experience. I'm afraid a public forum isn't the place for me to get into it.

The the majority of views are saying avoid pills at all costs, I was trying to balance that with: it shouldn't be stigmatised if there is a medical need much in the same way other physiological issues are treated, be it glasses, insulin, etc

[Charles R. Stevens]

It’s a mine field JV, lol. Treating psychiatric illness with out medication is difficult at best, but it sure ain’t a magic bullet. It’s like a blacksmith with out a vice, we can do a lot of things with out one, but sometimes you just have to have one to do a particular task.

[JHCC]

No such thing as a blacksmith without a vice. 

Now, some of us don’t have any vises....

[Charles R. Stevens]

Well if nothing else my spelling just might cure Das’s depression.

 

[Daswulf]

Hah Charles, there is a lot to work on and think about here. I'm setting an appointment next week. All advice is good advise if you take it all in stride. I appreciate it. I will talk to my dr. First and see where it progresses. I'm certainly not opposed to firing a doctor. We did it with our daughter. 

[JHCC]

Dealing with your mental health is very much like having a baby: everyone has loads of advice (and some of its even good), but in the end, you’re the one best positioned to make the decision that’s right for you. 

[Charles R. Stevens]

I have fired more than one doctor over the years, lol.

Best advice I can give you is to be upfront with the doctor and therapists. Now if you can make the wife think it was her idea, your golden ;-)

[Frosty]

You FIRED your daughter Das!?  

Good thing my parents never thought they could get away with firing us! Dad would've made a cannon. We've had to fire doctors, some are just looking for their next boat payment. The ones I've kept are the ones who talk with me rather than at me. Second opinions are a good thing or so they say. Good thing you're talking to blacksmiths you can get hundreds of opinions! 

We all have problems, don't beat yourself up about them while you're looking for solutions, coping tools, work arounds, etc. I'm skeptical of "cures" brains are pretty complicated, nobody really understands them or how they work. Personally I believe they all work differently.

Ah HAH! A perfect example of good blacksmith advice just posted. You de MAN Charles! 

Frosty The Lucky.

[Daswulf]

Lol Frosty, I certainly would fire my 3 month old daughter from being her own doctor. No, we fired a doctor of hers. 

Well after a bit of procrastination I finaly saw a dr. today. Told them of my many health problems including mental. So they drew some blood, took chest xrays and stuff. Blood pressure is atleast good lol. Will hear back on the other stuff. Dr. is starting me on wellbutrin to help with both quitting smoking And the anxiety/depression. I'll be checking back in 4 weeks to see how things are going. I'll have a talk with Elizabeth to help keep an eye on me for any "unusual" strangeness. The Dr. seems serious about helping and said if this doesnt work we will try something else. 

And thats where this starts. Tomorrow morning... 

 

[Frosty]

Ahhhh, Welbutrin. My insurance wouldn't cover Chantrix to help me stop smoking but had no problem with Welbutrin as a mood enhancer. Same med and it REALLY helped me stop smoking though the habit carried on long after I "quit". I found my flip phone in my breast pocket helped take the place of a pack of smokes. It was years before I stopped thinking I'd forgotten something though. The tree was what actually killed the desire or feeling I'd forgotten something important though. I STRONGLY discommend getting brained as a quitting tactic! Just don't pick up a smoke: dip, gum, nicotine patches, etc. I honestly believe Quitting AIDS(?)  that contain nicotine are designed to keep you HOOKED while your aren't smoking. Patches especially are BAD things!

Ah, my parents fired me all the time, usually from jobs I volunteered for or invented. PUT THAT DOWN!! NO, STOP DOING THAT!! NO YOU CAN NOT DO THAT!!  were well known parts of the vocabulary as I grew up. Then there was the direct question addressed to one or both of us or their half of phone calls starting:  He, she, they,  DID WHAT?!!  

Ahh, getting fired! Fond childhood and adolescent memories those. Think I'll call my Sister and talk about the good old days. 

Frosty The Lucky.

[Daswulf]

I tried Chantix before. The first time it was going great and i was down by half on the first packet of chantix. When i went to get my refill they hadnt sent the perscription in and i was off it for a week till they got it but between my mood and the messup ( and i think a bit of anger induced from the stuff) I gave up.  I tried again around a year later but my heart wasnt in it and I gave up again. There have been a few times I tried on my own but the will was weak. I battle with myself over it but the little addict in my brain seems to win. I tried gum and it was nasty. Tried the patch but it didnt do much but make my arm tingle and makw me sweat. I'm going to use thoughts of wanting to be there for my daughter to help. It really is pathetic how bad smoking has a grip on me or the lack of my willpower against it. I always kind of think I need a pro wrestler to follow me around all day and beat me down everytime I go for one. After a month of that I think I could get over it. Anyway thats my biggest and worst vice and hurdle.

 

 

[Frosty]

Nicotine is more addictive than heroin it just takes a little longer to get hooked.

I just deleted a couple paragraphs of my efforts and time quitting. Do NOT listen to folks talking about quitting. Pretend they're talking about ice cream or something if they do. Better leave, just walk away, apologize later. Talking only made things worse for me. DANG! there I go again.

I zaid NO ZING! (in my best Schultz voice)

Frosty The Lucky.

[Daswulf]

Awe, you didnt have to delete it yet. I'm sure by the time im really cutting it out tho I probably wont want to hear or thin about it. Not only the nicotine but the automation of getting one and lighting it. I have had one I was smoking before and caught myself going to get another one out to light.  

[Frosty]

Uh huh, and we laughed at Dad when he looked around frantically for a place to put the cigarette in his hand so he could take the one out of his mouth so he could put the one in his other hand in his mouth so he could get a fresh one out of the pack. No kidding he had 3 going and couldn't figure out how to get another out and lit. He was pulling a really tight tolerance on the lathe and stress goes best with a Camel. He had no problem running two feeds with a smoke in each hand and one in his mouth, it was lighting that fresh one that was the problem. 

Talk about bringing the shop to a quiet stop.

Frosty The Lucky.

[Daswulf]

I really do hope i can give my daughter good experiences in the shop and other without the smoking. I remember my dad smoking and shaming him for it. Wish I thought of that when I started..... I unfortunately work fine with one in my mouth. (Not at work since I go outside) tho some others would or do even if not allowed, I wont smoke in close proximity to somones car I'm working on. 

Eh, common sense really?! 

Anyway.... over the next couple weeks I'll be seeing how this stuff affects me and trying to go longer and longer without a ciggy. 

 

 

 

[Frosty]

Take up working with gunpowder and don't dust off when you leave for home?  

Take the Welbutrin for a while before you get serious, it has to build up in your system to really start decreasing the desire. Another trick that helped was to deliberately leave my smokes home so I had to make a special stop. Of course I ended up with quite a few pouches of rolling baccy but it helped reinforce the Welbutrin to not have one handy to light up on reflex. Having some at home helped me hold out THAT long. 

That was after the shakes eased up.

Frosty The Lucky.

[JHCC]

Glad to see you taking the good first step, and it sounds like the doctor is doing all the right things right now -- that is, looking at both your physical and your mental health. Good that you're getting Elizabeth involved in an appropriate way. Asking for help without abdicating responsibility and giving help without taking away agency are both super-important in a healthy relationship. 

Still praying for you, brother. Hang in there!

[Daswulf]

Thanks John. It seems well and good now. I'm thinking we still need couples counseling as Charles suggested too but things are good most of thr time. I'll work that in.  

For now it is the first step. Tomorrow is the second by Starting. Then it will take a little time to get that going.

[JHCC]

The president of the college where I work likes to say, "We need to be better at talking with each other and working together before a crisis happens, because the middle of a crisis is a lousy time to have to learn how to communicate." Same thing goes for relationships.