Need help forging a socket

[ddan7]

I having a little trouble forging a socket (I was trying to make a hoe out of a lawnmower blade) I can fuller a fan shape but I'm looking for tips or the proper hardy tool to create the socket. What tool is typically used for this? I'm guessing the horn, but I need a much smaller cone than the horn. Help Please...

[irnsrgn]

hand made hoe sockets were traditionally wrapped around and forge welded back to itself and then the body was fullered down to form a neck and then twisted 90 to the socket and finally the blade was forged to shape, and the eye was rounded with a taper to it for holding the handle

Edited May 18, 2008 by irnsrgn

[John B]

With respect to irnsrgn, draw the blade out before putting in the 90 degree bend, access to forge it out will be easier

[Ratel10mm]

I having a little trouble forging a socket (I was trying to make a hoe out of a lawnmower blade) I can fuller a fan shape but I'm looking for tips or the proper hardy tool to create the socket. What tool is typically used for this? I'm guessing the horn, but I need a much smaller cone than the horn. Help Please...

You need some cone madrils or hardie tools. They look like the sound, a thin tapering cone that you form the socket around to give you the taper that you are looking for.

[Steve Sells]

If you done have, can't borrow or steal the mandrel , then use a chunk of round stock sized close as you have to the same diameter of the handle you plan to use to hold the hole open as you weld. It doesn't need to be anything special unless you need to re-use it over and over again, even mild steel pipe can work to make a few.

[irnsrgn]

90 degree bend John????

[jayco]

I'm confused. Are you guys talking about old fashioned grubbing/sprouting type hoes or the more modern(I think) 'goose neck' hoe, also called a garden hoe?

[John B]

Garden Hoes confusion reigns the 90 degree bit turns the blade from in line to as it says, 90 degrees, I know this as a Dutch hoe, probably the same thing as a gooseneck hoe, I think I interpreted twist as bend, as I could not visualise why a twist would be needed.

I think part of the confusion is that because smith's made tools for individuals' requirements, there are many interpretations and names for them,

Then again there are wide blades hoes and narrow blade hoes each being used for a specific application

Its getting to sound like Santas coming

Hoe Hoe Hoe

Wish I had telepathy, what you say(Write) is not always perceived as what you mean.

Sorry for any confusion

[ThomasPowers]

I start by making the "fan" and then starting the bend into a bottom swage and then work it over a bic in my hardy hole.

Old bull pins and structural steel wrenches have smaller than anvil horn tapered ends used to align bolt holes on structural steel that make nice bic if you can find then cheap in a pawnshop, junkstore or fleamarket.

[yesteryearforge]

Forge a bick like you want it and then make the socket

Mike Tanner

[TonyD]

I have found if you lay the fanned out part, inside of socket-to-be up, on a piece of angle iron set like a ‘V’ and then striking with a cross pein will start the curve nicely. The rest of the socket can be free-formed with well placed, light blows to complete the socket. Photo of socket formed free-hand
Additionally, as YesterYearForge points out, a very good bick can be formed from auto tie rod, forged and bent to 90˚, especially if welding the socket. In a pinch I have used the tapered punch end of a handled

[irnsrgn]

My Cone Jig, I used it mainly for Calla Lilly's, but it works well for chisel and other tool sockets.



Tip, roll the edges some first,

Edited December 19, 2009 by irnsrgn

[Che Guevara]

are we talking about forge welding a froe?

[D-ski]

Irnsrgn, I really like that tool. I have a piece of angle iron, that I use as a "V" block, but I can see that the way you cut away one end of the angle iron makes a very useful tool. Thank you for sharing.

[pkrankow]

I think this idea applies to many tools in the garden, and weapons in the armory, and as mentioned artwork.
Phil

[brian.pierson]

ddan7,

Here is a link to a book that has two different types of hoes. It was written for african blacksmiths so all the sizes are metric but it might give you some idea how to go. Scroll down to project 20 and 21. good luck and hope it helps

Agricultural engineering in development


Brian

[pkrankow]

ddan7,

Here is a link to a book that has two different types of hoes. It was written for african blacksmiths so all the sizes are metric but it might give you some idea how to go. Scroll down to project 20 and 21. good luck and hope it helps

Agricultural engineering in development


Brian

This needs to be added to the book lists. Very good set of resources.
Phil

[bigfootnampa]

While I wouldn't want to discourage you from forge welding your sockets I would like to make the point that it is not at all necessary. I make extremely HEAVY DUTY trowels from old mower blades and my (unwelded) sockets are NOT the weakest point. It is really simpler to just keep slightly thicker walls on your sockets and forego the welding... the tubelike geometry imparts more than adequate strength. This is true for chisels, spears and most all types of socketed tools and weaponry. I use a cone mandrel in my vise to true up the sockets but you can get a pretty good job just curling in the step of your anvil and gently tapping the socket closed... the cone gives me a way to reopen any areas that squeeze in too tightly and so makes things easier and faster. You could taper a large rod and clamp it in your vise to do the same job (only light tapping is needed to true up the sockets). You really need your cone or tapered rod to be of the same taper as you desire for the sockets, though it would be possible to use one with a longer taper.

[brian.pierson]

This needs to be added to the book lists. Very good set of resources.

Phil

After Phil's comment, I thought I would add these links.

All three of these books were written by J.B. Stokes. They were published by the Food and Agriculture organization of the United nations. The basic book listed before is complete on the FAO website but the intermediate one is not. It is missing figures. The third book (Advanced) is not on the site at all. I like the books because they are very low tech and good for a beginner/backyard blacksmith. I found all of them on the Google book site. The links are below

basic
http://books.google.com/books?id=Y9lBNN3u1xQC&printsec=frontcover&client=firefox-a#v=onepage&q=&f=false
intermediate
http://books.google.com/books?id=uJvu_qnUKFsC&printsec=frontcover&client=firefox-a#v=onepage&q=&f=false
advanced
http://books.google.com/books?id=6kQMg6TcgVwC&printsec=frontcover&client=firefox-a#v=onepage&q=&f=false

Unfortunately these cannot be printed. they are still under copyright laws. But you can at least read them and take notes or screen shots of the parts that interest you.

Brian

Once the IFI site settles down I will post this to the books list thread

[ThomasPowers]

They also have an interesting method of hardfacing mild steel by crayon-ing on cast iron at high heat.