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I Forge Iron

Chisel ground santoku


Joël Mercier

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3 hours ago, JHCC said:

Very nice, indeed. That might just be the inspiration I need to finish mine (that’s been sitting half-finished on the shelf for months).

This is the nicest compliment I've received about my work. Thank you very much sir!

And thanks Lou! Much appreciated.

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Very nice! I like the wood choices, the copper accents, the shape of the handle, just the right amount of hammer marks left to make it look rustic yet clean, great shape on the blade, looks like it should be nicely balanced.... There is one problem that I see with it though... I'm left handed. :P

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Absolutely beautiful - very well done! I especially like the handle geometry that you went it. It has a unique style to it, but still looks like it would be comfortable to hold all day.

I've been curious about chef knives with a brut de forge-like finish: do you find the texture is deep/rough enough to hold onto food particles? I'm not worried about stuff staying behind after use so much as I am cross contamination between chopping one thing and another (ex, if you go from chopping carrots to onions, will your onions have a few orange bits showing up in them?)

 

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Oh boy, I didn't mean to kick a hornets nest with that...

To be clear, I'm not worried about it harboring bacteria while sitting in a knife block, or anything like that. So, maybe I should simplify the question: if you just chopped up some carrots, and you're going to move on to chopping an onion, would you give it a quick rinse first, or no?

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NO.

Check out Salmonella,  E. coli,  Campylobacter, Chlostridium tetani, etc.  food poisoning.

Don't get me wrong it is a beautiful knife.

 But it is NOT suitable for the kitchen.

Especially not a commercial kitchen.

SLAG.

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(forgive me, JHCC, I knew not what my actions would bring)

SLAG - for what it's worth, I spent about 11 years working in professional kitchens. Knives (and other items that come in contact with food, like cutting boards) with various textured finishes were common enough. Properly washed and sanitized, the texture isn't a problem at all. Again, I was just curious how the texture performed between washings.

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1 hour ago, SLAG said:

Check out Salmonella,  E. coli,  Campylobacter, Chlostridium tetani, etc.  food poisoning.

Don't get me wrong it is a beautiful knife.

 But it is NOT suitable for the kitchen.

Especially not a commercial kitchen.

It's going to have regular use in a kitchen, not a professional one that is. First, the textured part is quite high and most food won't touch or barely touch it. Second, this is not a butcher's knife in any way. Third, we often see texture in Japanese knives and nobody complains about it. 

All in all its just about common sense...

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Commercial kitchens and health inspectors are held to a much higher standard.  They even measure the temperatures of storage and cleaning devices. A residential kitchen does not endanger the public health, but still should be held to a high standard so the family and guests do not get sick.

Cross contamination is a major issue that is easily addressed. It includes new utensil for each use, dedicated cutting boards, and driving most people around the bend with being absolutely clean at all stages of the food preparation. 

For instance, that favorite coffee cup with a crack in it - goes into the trash as things can hide in the crack, no matter how many times it is washed or how clean you think it may be. The surface MUST be intact in order to be able to be cleaned.

How exacting is the cleaning process? As clean as you require for you or your loved ones. For the public health, then the standards go way up.

If in doubt, contact your local health department and speak with one of their inspectors. They are usually nice folks that can tell you lots of stories about both good and bad things they have encountered.

It is a nice knife that you have dedicated some time in making. Just be aware of where and how it CAN be used. Not everyone will take the time to clean it properly.

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Oh well, one would think someone would take the time to properly wash his 300$ kitchen knife. Anyways, this question was brought up during the knife design with the client which is also a friend of mine. 

I hope we can now close the can of worms. No more unthoughtful opinion about a kitchen knife supposedly unsuitable for the kitchen on someone else's thread. Thanks 

 

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who said it was  unthoughtfull perhaps only by yourself ? health safety  is for everyone to consider , Its not your call to try to shut it down. Its an open forum you posted to.  It is going to get comments. not all will be what you want to hear.

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Micro pits in the pitting in the blade will not necessarily kill all the bacteria, all the bacteria that can lodge in them.

Cracked coffee cups can harbor the tetanus organism.  (Chlostridium tetani.) They can survive the very hot temperature, and detergent of a dishwasher.

Spores of that bacterium can found in any clump of earth.

Many jurisdictions have laws concerning cracked cups for the above reason.

Mr. Mercier, contact the Quebec Attorney General to confirm my opinion.

Very thorough cleaning is essential to kill other pathogenic bacteria on the blade. (for example Salmonella, Campylobacter, etc. etc.).  These bugs cause food poisoning.

For example,  almost all uncooked chickens pieces have Salmonella on them.

Heat and/or very thorough washing, can kill them.

But cutting chicken with the knife and using that same knife for cutting other food can transfer the bacterium to them. In other words, we will have a 'ping pong' contamination situation going on.

Barely touching a blade is enough to spread the bacterium. The famous 'five second rule'  is a myth. The slightest contact is more than enough to spread contamination.

I am not familiar with chef's knives that have heavy pitting on them. I have never seen any. I defer to your knowledge concerning Japanese cutlery.  But, still, I have never seen pitting on those knives.

Mr. Pariso,  I do not dispute that you have worked,  (for eleven years), in professional kitchens.

I was a professional chef,  (part time),  for years. It helped pay for the University degrees that I attained. (especially the law degree).

Essentially we disagree.

Also,  I worked in microbiological research laboratories for more than ten years. I am well aware of,  and have practiced sterile technique for more than those 10 years.

Again,  we do not agree.

Cheers,

SLAG.

p.s. for all readers. Please update your tetanus shots.  Cuts and serious burns can easily become infected.

p.p.s.  JHCC,  please pass the popcorn, I will have Margaret (the Marvelous), buy some beer for all of us.

p.p.p.s.  I did not think that any of my comments were "unthoughtful opinion".

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5 hours ago, Joël Mercier said:

one would think someone would take the time to properly wash his 300$ kitchen knife.

Cars can cost several thousands of dollars. How many times have you seen a car parked outside of the garage or in need of a bath?  Money invested in a product does not equate to care of the investment.

The discussion was intended to be about safety, and keeping a knife clean and safe to use. You may not be able to eliminate or kill every little bug, but you do not have to give them a place to gather, breed and cause problems. The discussion was aimed at a world wide audience. 

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Choosing the right words, at the right time, for the given situation,  is an artform.  Maybe a better approach would have been to ask "How are you going to keep it clean?"   Where ever there is a place, contamination, bacteria, etc will work their way in and start to multiply. 

 

Since the post I have looked at several items. Any place were two surfaces meet invites stuff to fall between the crack. The sponge on the kitchen sink gets cleaned or replaced daily. The sweeper bag is a treasure trove of all manner of things. When you change the bag do you wipe out the bag compartment? What about removing and cleaning the secondary or Hepa filters? When was the last time you cleaned the inside of the sweeper hose? 

If you wipe the table and counter tops with disinfectant cleaning solutions, do you use more than one type solution and switch them around so the bacteria are less likely to build up a resistance to just one solution? And I will not ask about cleaning the evaporation tray that is under the refrigerator. 

We strive to be clean enough to be healthy, and not get sick on the things we overlook.

 

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