Al Stephens

Information Needed, Kuhn Ring Element Challenge

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4 hours ago, PVF Al said:

The only ring that was forge welded was the outer frame ring.

Then they must be lap Joints? Lol, that's a question

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Here is a completed project photo. I didn't post last night because I was hoping someone would send me a better picture. I will go back Mon. afternoon and get one without shadows. In respect to the joints, if you go back and examine the original picture closely you will find several indications of rings that had a joint at the intersection of two points. We tried to do the same. About 60 blacksmiths came and examined the project yesterday, we had it suspended at eye level were it could be spun around and looked at from every direction. To paraphrase and sum up the comments I heard ,  " We know there are joints, but we can't find them". I'm still putting pictures of the process together, don't give up on me.  Al

Completed Project .jpg

Here's the "Team" Left to Right.  Travis Fleming, Ronnie Howard, Dustin Patterson, Saxon Reynolds, Al Stephens.

Dream Team 1.jpg

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I stood there and stared at the thing for ages on Saturday and STILL can't wrap my head around how you did it!    Absolutely stunning. 

 

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It's not quite so stunning if you don't try to LITERALLY rap your head around it, Spanky! :wacko:

I can't think of words to adequately compliment you and the gang on your work, Al. Beautiful just falls too far short. 

The closure joints on the rings can only be hidden where it passes through the Sq. elements. Did you even weld them? It's not like the joints are structural and welding the ones that aren't terribly difficult would stiffen it up well. Enough maybe?

Frosty The Lucky.

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Well, Saturday they had it suspended in the air at about eye level, so it was quite easy to RAP your head on it whilst trying to WRAP your head around how they did it!  :) 

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Frosty, actually some of the closure joints were hidden where a round ring passed through another round ring. There was one ring that had a small tack on it to hold it together. But if I try to tell which one I'm sure my fingers will swell up and I will never be able to type again! We found that the farther along in the assembly process we got, the stiffer everything became. After the frame ring was installed we went back and tightened up 8-10 joints. At that point we couldn't find anything else that was loose, and could produce no more "rattles" so we decided to leave well enough alone, and put the finish on it. That was how it was put on display Sat.

As I have been promising, I will put a PDF file below with some pictures and captions. I'm sure it won't answer every question that everyone might have, but it's a lot more info. than we had when we started. If anyone come up with a better way to do it. Please, show us the pictures. Where not sworn to secrecy, I will attempt to answer questions.

Once again thank everyone for your kind and encouraging messages. Al

Kuhn Ring Notebook PDF.pdf

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Fascinating to read through, blacksmiths generations from now will be referring to that!  Thanks....but it still hurts my head!  I don’t know how you guys did it, especially in that heat.

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Al, y’all are taking this to Tannehil this year, right?  What about long term?  It belongs in a Blacksmithing museum somewhere.

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On 7/30/2018 at 7:50 PM, PVF Al said:

If anyone come up with a better way to do it. Please, show us the pictures.

With all due respect to the Infinite Monkey Theorem * aside, we're still trying to figure out how you put this together THIS time. No forge welds, you say? 

 

Stunning work!

 

 

(* Infinite Monkey Theorem, (paraphrased): given an infinite number of monkeys on an infinite number of typewriters for an infinite amount of time, and eventually one of those monkeys will almost surely type out "Hamlet" in its' entirety.)

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Thanks Scott. Just as the pictures show, we started in the center and worked out. That was a method taught to me years ago, and has always worked well. All most everything passes through the 2end, and largest ring. Once R2 was in place, it was a case of looking at which ring intersected with other rings and the sq. cross members, and figuring out what needed to be done to get them in place. There were no forge welds on the interior rings, the farther we got into the assembly the tighter everything got. Our piece really kinds of holds itself together. Al

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The team got together again yesterday to work on a display stand for the project. The plan is it will pivot between 2 points, so it can be spun and examined from all sides. It will be done by the AFC Conf. While planning I was shown a book, "The ABC'c of Blacksmithing", republished by Blue Moon Press. And look what we found!!! Don't know how many hours I spent looking for this picture when the project was in the planning stage. This is a real good book with a lot of information in it. 

Pic. Discription.jpg

Displat stand parts.jpg

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Boy! Give you guys 4or 5 more minutes in the fire and you really ought to start getting good!  ;)

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Wow, according to that book you guys have solved a Gordian knot, without cutting it in half. Just goes to show that what someone thinks is unsolvable at one time doesn't mean it's unsolvable for all time.

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 Sorry about that, the previous post should have been a 15 sec. video, with the project spinning in the stand. With " Celebrate" playing on the radio. .Heres a pic of the project in it's stand.   Al

Complete with stand still.jpg

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We never even thought about the radio until we played it back, but then though "how appropriate". Thomas, I don't know of anybody going to Quad-State as of now. Al

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Spanky, as with most of the project, it was a combination of input and labor from everybody that came up with this. And yes there was a lot of smiling and high fives the first time it was spun around. If anyone has not seen the "spinning" video it is posted on the Athens Forge , and The Alabama Forge Council FB page. Al.

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