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RHayes

One burner first forge

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I found this site a couple weeks ago while searching metal art images. Having  acquired a few related tools already, I decided to try making a forge and see where this takes me.

The body is 12"  casing, the ends from an old water heater, various pieces from the scrap barrel.  The insulation material is in and I still need to rigidize and coat it.  The plan is to  place one K-26 firebrick (possibly coated?)  as a replaceable interior base. The brick will end up at the height of the end cut outs.

The burner is  slotted 3/4" iron pipe with .030 mig tip for orifice.  I haven't tried a choke on it as of yet.  It lights up and roars pretty good in the free air but  testing in the forge is yet to happen.  The sleeve around the burner  was intended as a bushing to stabilize the burner in the holder. Once the inside gets coated the volume should end up just under 350 cu. inches minus the volume of a 1.25 x 4.5 x 9" brick.

I need to get colloidal silica and Kast O Lite coming to complete this.  A buddy says he has some castable refractory but I don't want to risk getting something that isn't right.  

Comments a criticism would be greatly appreciated.  Burner size?  end openings?  ??

 

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FREAR.jpg

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Looks like a good start! It may be a little large for the one burner, what is the internal volume? 

What kind/design is the burner? This is essential to answer any questions 

I think end openings are more of a trial and error thing. They look good, but it really depends on how it works with the burner.  

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Thanks Wayne.  E-mail on its way. 

 

(M):  I will be applying some Kast O Lite  and a K-30 fire brick ending up with an internal volume of 300 cu. in.  The  burner is just something I spent a couple of hours on (includes research and developement).  I read where 1:12 was good for a burner flair so turned a die with 5 deg. taper and flaired some stainless tubing, milled some slots in a piece of  3/4' pipe, turned and pressed in the end fitting that was drilled for 3/8, installed a set screw, and then drilled out a piece of 3/8" rod with a #7 drill, and tapped for 1/4 x 28 thread.  The other end was threaded 1/8" pipe.   The flair was dimpled on a few locations and threads tightly on the 3/4" pipe. (3/4" pipe is covered by flair).  The burner is about 9" from the slots to the end of the burner flair.

Since I won't be firing it up again until the insulation is covered, I really don't have any burner questions yet, but they are bound to come!  

 

 

 

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I re -measured the burner.  It is 7.25 from the end of flair to the front end of the milled slots.  The slots are 3/8" x  1.12.  A pic this morning as the sun was just starting to shine in the shop.  Propane at 12psi.  My elevation is approximately 2500 ft.

 

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Fire brick is probably not the best choice, lots of thermal mass, and it will be eaten by welding flux, and it may crumble. A kiln shelf from a pottery supply store is quite tough.  

 Whats the volume without the brick?

As to the burner, This is where i get into deeper waters, wait and some real burner experts will come along.  It looks good to me, but i dont know too much.  

So to clarify, you designed the burner? 

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The volume should end up at 346 cu. in. without the brick.  The brick would be approx. 50 cu in. is a K-26 insulating brick, and I could coat it with Kast O lite. I will need to raise the base up to the level of the cutouts and that was the first way considered. 

Sliding the bushing/ choke  down on the burner slots beyond half of their length starts to greatly alter the flame and it can become a much longer, softer,  dark blue.  

I have seen images of burners with slots  or holes for air  so obviously not my idea,  but no,  I  didn't follow a specific plan and you might say I designed it.    

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I think you're doing fine so far. That burner can easily be improved, when you're ready. At this point you are better off finishing the forge; you may never get around to finishing the burner.

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Thanks Mikey98118, right now its "hurry up and wait" for more components to arrive.  I suspect my door design might not be as cool as I thought once it is subjected to some serious heat and will just have to see what happens. If I need to modify the forge or burner, so be it  I'm now committed to make an inexpensive forge no matter how much it costs !!

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A soft firebrick for the floor is not a good idea if you plan on using flux.  Get a piece of kiln shelf for your floor - reasonably cheap, tough (flux resistant) and not a lot of thermal mass.  As your forge is round, use some plain, non-scented kitty litter on the bottom of your forge before you put the kiln shelf down - it'll act as a leveler.

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I think you have a solid grasp on forge and burner design. From here you should only grow more confident in your decisions; you are already looking competent in them.

There are two kinds of errors: The kind that box you into a dead end, and the kind that can be easily reworked. So far. I see none of the first kind, and the second kind is merely a learning experience.

Take, for example, your exhaust openings; your steel shell runs right up to them, which means it will overheat (possibly even warp). What to do? Buy a cheap rotary hand tool and 3" cutoff disks from Harbor Freight Tools and cut the shell 1" away from the ceramic fiber openings all the way around. Wait to cut the shell until after the fiber is rigidized, and fired. after you cut the shell, finish coat the fiber with Plistex or Metricoat. This learning experience will encourage you to move ahead, when you decide to resize the main exhaust opening. No, I not saying that it's wrong. I'm saying that no matter how good a forge is we all want to tinker after its done :) 

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I concur with Mike you have a pretty good handle on forges and burners, especially for a first timer. 

Don't worry about using a K-26 fire brick they will withstand the fast thermal cycling a hobby forge puts them through and if you coat it with Kastolite welding fluxes won't be an issue.

However, the issue I have with a brick even a good one sitting there like a loaf of bread is what it will do to the flame circulation. The vortex you've designed in needs a relatively smooth interior surface, the brick will disrupt the flow and produce a flame shadow down stream. It may not be the issue I'm thinking right now the brick may be more inset than I think.

However what I prefer in this case is to fill the bottom of the curve with kaowool the width or in this case the depth of the floor you wish. Rigidized and covered with 1/2" of Kastolite and it will have two advantages. First a smooth transition from cylindrical wall to flat floor and secondly it'll be more usable space.

Really nice job I'm looking forward to seeing it HOT.

Frosty The Lucky.

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I find no problem in your thinking, Frosty.

K26 brick needs to be faced with a good alumina based cast refractory anyway. Loads of builders have chosen to plaster Kast-O-lite 30 over other materials to create a sealed hot-face surface. All that remains is how thick he wants to make the hot-face layer; yes/no?

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1 hour ago, Frosty said:

First a smooth transition from cylindrical wall to flat floor and secondly it'll be more usable space.

That is what I did with our forge, it made the forge hotter and didn't disrupt the swirl/flow, also made getting small pieces easier to pick up with tongs. I like the looks of this forge, may have to copy it when I build another (they are addictive ya know).

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48 minutes ago, Mikey98118 said:

All that remains is how thick he wants to make the hot-face layer; yes/no?

Pretty much how I see it, yes. I like 1/2" and a coat of kiln wash for good measure. 

Where I'd put hot face coated K-26 bricks are porches and sliding doors/baffles. 

Frosty The Lucky.

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I begin to see giving advice to people on this forum as a process that needs to be matched to the level of work they're comfortable with, without leaving the impression that others should follow it. 

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On ‎6‎/‎19‎/‎2018 at 5:02 PM, Frosty said:

However what I prefer in this case is to fill the bottom of the curve with kaowool the width or in this case the depth of the floor you wish. Rigidized and covered with 1/2" of Kastolite and it will have two advantages. First a smooth transition from cylindrical wall to flat floor and secondly it'll be more usable space.

I totally concur. I use high alumina kiln shelves the very same way.

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So I got my Kast O Lite applied and its curing.  As Frosty suggested, I should have just leveled the bottom with the wool and Kastolite but I included the brick in the base.  I don't think it will be a complete show stopper, but I should pay more attention and  will post some pics when I get into the firing process.  

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Use it. After a while you'll have a better idea what's going to work better for you in the next forge. I must've made half a dozen forges before I got one that worked for what I was doing. Of course I started doing something else and . . . <sigh>

Jer

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Yesterday afternoon, and today several times  I fired up for a couple minutes  up to about ten minutes.  The first photo is five or so minutes after startup at approximately 12-14 psi.  In the second photo,  I was messing around with my first piece of iron ever in a forge.

It seems to run fine up to 20 or more psi (reg. says 25 max), have run it up to maybe ten minutes at 12-14 psi.  It seems like it will work!!

I don't know enough to tell if I need to do any tweaking on the burner but will re-read what I can.  All comments are welcome.  For some reason I can only view the pages that show in the original topic listing.  If I try to view more I get a "contact us" message.  Maybe because I'm not on Facebook?  

 

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You can tweak both burner and forge to get still more. On the other hand, you have arrived at a very good forge. I suggest you let time go buy while you get acquainted with it, so that your future tweaking goes just as well as the basic work you've done thus far :D

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9 hours ago, Mikey98118 said:

 On the other hand, you have arrived at a very good forge. 

This could be very bad.   Phone rang yesterday while I was playing with it (regarding work) and I told the caller I was way too busy, and find someone else. :)

 

 

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On 6/27/2018 at 9:00 PM, RHayes said:

 For some reason I can only view the pages that show in the original topic listing.  If I try to view more I get a "contact us" message.  Maybe because I'm not on Facebook?  

 

 

 

Try the reload button top left.

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On June 28, 2018 at 9:07 PM, wpearson said:

Try the reload button top left.

When I go to Burners 101, Pages 1,2,3,4, and 47 are available. I can only go to those pages. When I click on any of the additional pages shown within the thread, they don't appear and I get the message "contact us" . 

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