MayerMR Posted June 7, 2018 Posted June 7, 2018 Hey fellas, I'm new to the forum and I should just come out and say it...I'm not a blacksmith...just yet anyway. Right now I'm pretty constrained by my location - I live in a city suburb right now and just don't have the space. That said, I do have a nicely outfitted garage and while I don't smith, I do find having something around that I can hammer my projects on extremely useful. That said, I've been using this cruddy, 55lb (actually, 52lb) Chinese anvil for quite awhile that until recently, always left transfer marks on my work pieces because of the poor quality grind on the face of the anvil. Last weekend, I was doing some work on a project and in my haste I forgot to put down my metal flashing that I used as a shield to keep the pieces from getting transfer marks. My project was ruined and I was fed up. So I did what I know I'm not supposed to do and took my angle grinder to face and smoothed it out. While I was at it I stripped the paint and smoothed out the casting marks on the horn. After which I coated it with boiled linseed oil and let it cure in the sun for a week. Turned out nice...but I was basically putting lipstick on a pig. Well, all that said, my neighbor and I were talking and I mentioned that I was looking for a better anvil because of the aforementioned issues. He said that he's got one out on his farm that he'll get for me next time he runs out there. It was apparently his dad's and it was old and rusting away and he was just happy to give it to someone that would take care of it. He called me today and told me he had to run out there this week and brought me the anvil. He knew nothing of the brand or the size, but free was free, and knowing it was old, I could only assume it was better than what I am currently using. So it turns out it's a Kohlswa 70lb anvil. I don't know much about anvils, but from what I've briefly read, it seems that this is quite a quality anvil. As you all can see though, it's pretty rusty, but otherwise in pretty darn good shape. How would you fellas go about rehabbing anvil? I'm thinking of taking a wire brush to it to knock off the loose rust, then putting it a tub of Evaporust to remove the rust, and then giving it the same boiled linseed oil treatment. Would this be a suitable thing to do with an anvil of this quality? Additionally, would using the same anvil stand that I've been using for my crappy anvil suffice? Or should I look for a large stump? What is the best method of affixing this anvil to the stand or stump? I friction fit the Chinese anvil into the stand to secure it. It was in there and didn't move, but I don't know if that is proper? Thanks fellas, I appreciate your assistance! S/F, -Matt Quote
ThomasPowers Posted June 7, 2018 Posted June 7, 2018 Lovely anvil in good shape. I'd power wire brush off the rust and polish the face by working hot steel on the face. Since I don't know your location I can't make suggestions as to any coating for the sides; Out here the airport says we've had almost 1.5 inches of rain since Jan 1st; not a whole lot of rusting going on...No dew or condensation too... Your stand should work fine; I have 3 or 4 built like that only not as pretty. With the Kohlswa cast steel anvil it will be LOUD if you don't mute it. The silicone caulk is a good method; or the bars to fasten it down; or... In most places in the USA that's a several hundred dollar gift! Quote
Irondragon Forge ClayWorks Posted June 7, 2018 Posted June 7, 2018 57 minutes ago, MayerMR said: I'm new to the forum Welcome to IFI... I second Thomas Powers post. You might read this thread to get the best out of the forum. Quote
MayerMR Posted June 7, 2018 Author Posted June 7, 2018 On 6/6/2018 at 10:57 PM, ThomasPowers said: Lovely anvil in good shape. I'd power ...... excess removed Thomas, Thanks for the reply, my apologies about my naked profile. I'm located in Dallas, Texas (well, technically, just outside of Dallas, in Richardson, close enough). Thank you for the advice. I'm assuming you mean silicone caulk on the underside where it meets the stand? And that's what I'm finding...people are throwing big $$ numbers out when talking about these things. I'm not really overly surprised that a quality anvil would go for that much though, to be honest, since I've been looking for a new anvil for awhile. Most anvils in this area tend to go for $500-1000, granted they are larger than this one. People are really proud of anything they can call "vintage" or "antique" in this region... So since I'm in Dallas - does my boiled linseed oil treatment a la the cheap Chinese anvil work out? On 6/6/2018 at 11:04 PM, Irondragon Forge & Clay said: Welcome to IFI... I second Thomas Powers post. You might read this thread to get the best out of the forum. Excess removed Ah darn it, one post and I've already made a faux pas. My apologies, I let my excitement for my new anvil get the best of me. I've already added some info to my profile and I'll be sure to read through that post before I make any more mistakes! Quote
ThomasPowers Posted June 7, 2018 Posted June 7, 2018 NP; we're used to folks dropping in all het up! And Dallas should work for BLO; will it be stored inside? Sun down here by El Paso is a killer for most finishes. Quote
MayerMR Posted June 7, 2018 Author Posted June 7, 2018 Yes sir, inside 99% of the time. It's light enough that I can move it about if I want to though. I really just wanted something that would allow me to keep the sides from rusting up again. The face is a bit pitted as well, will it hurt it if I take an orbital sander to help smooth it out some? I'll be honest, I don't think I even have a method (other than a propane or oxy torch) to heat up anything anyway. Quote
ThomasPowers Posted June 7, 2018 Posted June 7, 2018 Forging will polish it out faster than you will get to a state where it will make a difference. I have a Hay Budden that spent 50 years in an unheated shed in a swampy area near a stream in Ohio. When I got it the entire face had light condensation pitting. Wire wheeled of the rust and got to forging---the sweet spot is smooth and gleaming now. Turns out that scale is a polishing compound.... Quote
BIGGUNDOCTOR Posted June 7, 2018 Posted June 7, 2018 Don't want it to rust? Paint it. I think I only have one anvil that does not have paint on it from the various companies, institutions, and factories they came from. Use an unknotted wire cup wheel on a grinder, and if you knock off just the orange rust and leave the darker patina under it you will be fine. Quote
MayerMR Posted June 8, 2018 Author Posted June 8, 2018 On 6/6/2018 at 11:47 PM, ThomasPowers said: Forging will polish it out faster than you will get to a state where it will make a difference. Man, I bet that sucker was quite the heap-o-rust when you got it. So, forgive my ignorance, but if I built a campfire in my fire pit and got the coals good and hot, could I put a few pieces of iron/steel in there and get them hot enough to do some forging that will make a difference? Or do I really need a forge to get the metal hot enough? On 6/7/2018 at 3:13 AM, BIGGUNDOCTOR said: Don't want it to rust? Paint it. I was considering paint; that's kind of option 2 for me though as I'd really rather keep the anvil bare - mainly from a aesthetic perspective though. I'm honestly not as concerned about keeping it from rusting again once I get it cleaned up. My hobby is the restoration of old tooling from the 20s through the 70s (which I then use, btw...they are meant to be used...) so I'm pretty good about watching the humidity and temperature fluctuations in my shop and keeping the bare cast iron coated with paste wax or other protectants. I'm thinking I may try my hand at an electrolysis bath on this anvil and see how that works in cleaning it up. Quote
Charles R. Stevens Posted June 8, 2018 Posted June 8, 2018 Just add a genial blast of air to the coals Quote
Frosty Posted June 8, 2018 Posted June 8, 2018 Welcome aboard Matt glad to have you. Oooh, a cast Swedish steel anvil! I'm a huge fan of cast Swedish steel it's as good as it gets. I like Trewax applied to a fresh coffee temp anvil once it's brushed off. Trewax is carnuba paste wax like used on bowling alleys and tough as nails. When melted it's very fluid and low viscosity so it gets in everything. When cool it's very hard so wipe off the excess while still hot, drips will chip. I also like Trewax for finishing forged pieces. 70 lbs. is a sweet size for a portable and being a Kohlswa it's hard enough to be darned efficient for it's size. I made a steel tripod stand for mine and it did a good job of damping the ring. Your anvil will be VERY loud wear ear protection or it'll damage your hearing. That's a SWEET score! Be sure to make something forged for the fellow who gave it to you as a thank you. Frosty The Lucky. Quote
MC Hammer Posted June 8, 2018 Posted June 8, 2018 For free, you did excellent!!! Clean it up as others have said. The wire brush on an angle grinder does an amazing job. Mine was just as rusty when I got it and she cleaned up wonderfully. Don't grind the top face at all, just use it and it will get smooth and polished as others have stated. You are just the latest caretaker of this anvil so everything you do to it will be done to all future caretakers after you, so keep that in mind. Perfectly square edges are not needed nor desired by most blacksmiths, but yours look great as is. Here's what my anvil looked like when I brought it home. Here she is today after following the cleaning advice you received in this thread. You'll be happier getting some kind of forge. There are plans out there to build simple coffee can forges that will heat the metal much better than a campfire. There are also brake drum forges that you can build as a starting point. Search the forum for threads on these and you'll enjoy that new anvil a whole lot more with metal heated up enough to be moved really well. Quote
Glenn Posted June 8, 2018 Posted June 8, 2018 10 hours ago, MayerMR said: I was considering paint; that's kind of option 2 for me though as I'd really rather keep the anvil bare - mainly from a aesthetic perspective Clear coat paint will solve both needs. Quote
MayerMR Posted June 8, 2018 Author Posted June 8, 2018 8 hours ago, Frosty said: Oooh, a cast Swedish steel anvil! I'm a huge fan of cast Swedish steel it's as good as it gets. Thanks Frosty! I really do feel pretty lucky to have received such a quality anvil. As I've mentioned, I've been looking for a better anvil for awhile but in my area these things are My neighbor refused any payment other than helping him move some decorative boulders around with him - but I do think I'm going to try to think of something nice to do for him aside from that, as well. So it's really funny that you mention how loud it will ring. I had read in the past about how good anvils "ring" when you hit them, but I hadn't really had any first-hand knowledge of it until I got this one. On the way out the door to work this morning, I paused and thought, "I'm going to hit that anvil with a hammer real fast" So I proceeded to do so, and sure enough, "RIIINGGGGGGGGG!!!" I was taken aback. So then I thought, well I've been whacking on that Chinese anvil for awhile now and I don't recall anything like that ever happening before...so I walked over to it and thwacked it. It just goes, "thwump" and the hammer didn't even bounce at all. *That* was eye opening to me... 3 hours ago, MC Hammer said: There are plans out there to build simple coffee can forges that will heat the metal much better than a campfire. There are also brake drum forges that you can build as a starting point. Thank you for the kind words. I will definitely looking to the little forge options out there. I have see the coffee can forges before but always wondered if their size would basically limit someone to bladesmithing? Again, I'm completely ignorant, so I need to do some more research. I've not heard of a brake drum forge though; and I think I have a couple of those laying around - I'll need to look into that as well. Quote
JHCC Posted June 8, 2018 Posted June 8, 2018 If solid fuel (charcoal, coal) is an option, take a look at the JABOD threads. 18 minutes ago, MayerMR said: I had read in the past about how good anvils "ring" when you hit them This was a general truth back in the days when almost all anvils were made from wrought iron with a steel face: a faulty forge weld or internal crack would result in a thud or thwack rather than a bright ring. Once Fisher & Norris figured out how to make a cast iron anvil with a tool steel face, brightness of ring became less of an absolute criterion. Cast steel anvils are also known for the loudness of their rings. One thing to consider regarding the lightness of your anvil is that if you attach it solidly to a heavy stand, it will be much more stable under your hammer blows. I have a 148 lb. Mousehole (the Undisputed King of Anvils) that was okay when it was mounted on an ash log, but fantastic once I moved it to a heavy welded steel stand. Think of the anvil and the stand as an entire system, and not just the weight of the anvil itself. Quote
ThomasPowers Posted June 8, 2018 Posted June 8, 2018 Campfires generally only get metal to a dull red if that and take a lot of time. However rake the coals to a side and add air and you have a ground forge that with practice will get welding hot. I found forging on my knees to get tedious real fast and so when I use an open fire to produce charcoal I shovel it up and dump it in a dirt forge moved up to a convenient height. I built a shaker shovel out of gravel shaker screen so I can leave the ash and small bits of charcoal at the fire and only dump the hot coals into my forge. Quote
BIGGUNDOCTOR Posted June 8, 2018 Posted June 8, 2018 In regards to paint, some anvils were painted at the factory...so if you are doing a "restoration" you will need to do some research. Quote
Daswulf Posted June 8, 2018 Posted June 8, 2018 I'm with Glenn on the clearcoat. I used a hightemp exhaust flat clearcoat on one of my anvils after cleanup. Has that old look and is protected. Just not on the face. Just a light wipe of oil on that here and there. Quote
ThomasPowers Posted June 8, 2018 Posted June 8, 2018 Generally I just wirebrush the face and get to work; even when I lived in Ohio. Of course I didn't get any anvils that look like they were stored in a battery plant. Quote
Glenn Posted June 8, 2018 Posted June 8, 2018 26 minutes ago, Daswulf said: Just not on the face. Just a light wipe of oil on that here and there. Leave the top of the horn where the hot metal goes unpainted also. Just a wipe of oil. If in doubt, you will burn it off with the hot metal anyway. (grin) Quote
MayerMR Posted June 10, 2018 Author Posted June 10, 2018 Evening fellas! I thought I'd give everyone a quick update on where I'm at with my Kohlswa! I decided to try something new with de-rusting this fella. Electrolysis. Firstly, I'll say that it's incredibly simple to do. That said, my anvil is still sitting in the tank, so I don't know how it'll end up in the end. Here's was my quick and dirty set-up. My wife walked out in the garage to ask me if I knew where the purple rubbermaid that she had just emptied and left in the living room was and caught me drilling holes in the side red handed. I, of course, denied any knowledge of the whereabouts of it. I don't think it worked, but she turned around and walked away, so I carried on. Wired ten 12'' pieces of rebar together around the edges and put a bolt through the pritchel hole. Mixed up the washing soda (sodium bicarbonate) and added the anvil to the mix after taking a wire brush to it to knock off most of the loose scale. Powered on at near near 6pm sharp. Bubbles started right away...that's a good sign: 30 mins later: Just checked it a few mins ago (now 10pm). It's been in four hours now. Can already tell a big difference: Stay tuned for more updates! Quote
Dave51B Posted June 10, 2018 Posted June 10, 2018 That is a good process to clean stuff. If you have any questions let me know. The surface area of your sacrificial electrodes has a lot to do with how often they will need cleaned. Enjoy.... Life is Good Dave Quote
tanglediver Posted June 10, 2018 Posted June 10, 2018 On 6/8/2018 at 6:56 AM, MayerMR said: On the way out the door to work this morning, I paused and thought, "I'm going to hit that anvil with a hammer real fast" So I proceeded to do so, and sure enough, "RIIINGGGGGGGGG!!!" I was taken aback. So then I thought, well I've been whacking on that Chinese anvil for awhile now and I don't recall anything like that ever happening before...so I walked over to it and thwacked it. It just goes, "thwump" and the hammer didn't even bounce at all. *That* was eye opening to me... Quite a difference, eh!?! I believe it will clean up just fine. Quote
MayerMR Posted June 10, 2018 Author Posted June 10, 2018 18 hours ago, Dave51B said: That is a good process to clean stuff. If you have any questions let me know. The surface area of your sacrificial electrodes has a lot to do with how often they will need cleaned. Enjoy.... Life is Good Dave Wow Dave! That's quite the operation you have going on there. How do you keep the exposed sections of the parts from rusting when you've flipped it and it's working the other side? What do you like to use as your sacrificial electrodes? 6 hours ago, tanglediver said: Quite a difference, eh!?! I believe it will clean up just fine. Huge difference...had I known the difference years ago I would have replaced the cast iron one a long time ago! Well I finished up the electrolysis today around noon. It really did a great job removing the rust. I then took a brass brush to it to knock off some of the black residue left by the process And then after blowing off the dust with my compressor, I gave it a light coating of boiled linseed oil and have it baking in the Texas sun. I'll leave in to cure out for a few more days and may even do another light coating. All in all, I'm really pleased with how she turned out. And lastly, just a quick Before/After for good measure Quote
Dave51B Posted June 11, 2018 Posted June 11, 2018 1 hour ago, MayerMR said: How do you keep the exposed sections of the parts from rusting when you've flipped it and it's working the other side? With large parts I like to pressure wash, blow dry and spritz or brush on phosphoric acid. 2 hours ago, MayerMR said: What do you like to use as your sacrificial electrodes? Just about anything that will attract a magnet that will fit in the tank and conduct electricity. Sheet metal works good for large surface area, but will turn to Swiss cheese pretty quick. Quote
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