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Champion Blower Fan Blade Removal

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I am trying to disassemble another Champion blower to rebuild it.  I did this many years ago but recall little from that effort other than be careful.   The one I have has never been that great sounding, a bit gravely...,  but it keeps blowing like a champ.   Just concerned that someday if will just seize up.    I bought another some years back and unfortunately it went swimming for several days underwater in the 2016 flood in South Louisiana.    Fortunately it was overloaded with a lot of grease and other non water solubles.   but let me get to the point.

I have it disassembled to the point where the nut on the far side of the fan is off.   Under that there is a washer that has a notch that slides into a groove on the shaft.  That is out.   What I see appears to be another nut that just has two flats on it that is fairly deep into the worm gear assembly.  OR maybe this is part of the shaft?    I don't really have a tool to put on that so that I can loosen the nut on the fan blade/blower side in order to get the nut off the fan blade.    I have searched the net and found several does and don't and some things I am just concerned with.   I don't want to damage the fan since it looks to be in excellent condition.    I don't want to break the spokes of the fan either.    I have lubed and penetrate oiled everything.    Does anyone have a sure fire way to break the fan blade nut loose without damaging anything?   Is the two flat nut a nut or just part of the shaft?

Lastly I believe that this nut is NOT reverse threaded.    If that is incorrect then that would be pretty important to know.   Any help?

I was more active on this forum some years back but the flood and other priorities have taken precedence.   Working to get back to some of this....    Made some pot holder hooks this evening and looking to move forward....      

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Here is the shaft out of the blower minus the conical bearing race right behind the fan. The actual hub with the fan blades is threaded as well. If memory serves me right there are no left hand threads. No point since the blower is non directional. A good penetrating oil, a 3/8 impact wrench and a LITTLE heat on any stuck parts works well. The impact action will help to prevent breaking things.

EE7AF04D-3FEB-4D1F-9E24-FA3DE8DDBDDA.jpeg

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Ok I have not tried the heat.   Saw that on youtube.    Looks like the round bit with the two flats on it is shown upper left.   part of the bearing assembly.   And looks like either/all stuff comes loose just need to be able to hold it tight without breaking stuff.    Yeah, I was thinking the same in regard to right handed threads.   NO point since it works either way.    I find I use mine with an overhand push but some might like to pull it over the top I guess...   The pic helps.   Thanks Frozen!

As for the model is does not say 400 on it.   The SN is #6662.   BUt it's still pretty dirty and maybe it will reveal itself once I progress a bit further.    OTherwise is looks quite similar to my other Champ 400.   And so far this shaft pic matches everything I have been able to get to so far.    

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I bought some different penetrating fluid and lubed it all up and let it sit.    I got my MAP gas little torch and heated up the nut on the fan side.    The second time it broke loose.   Except what broke loose was the race/nut opposite the side of the fan with the two flats.  Left side of the pic above.  Now I am down to the pic attached.   

I am fearful that I will break the fan blade assembly if I do anything drastic and have no good way to hold the shaft to break the nut loose that I am pointing to.   Below the fan it looks like another bearing cover cap.     And once again no easy was to get hold of it.    If I could then I could pull the whole shaft out and things would become easy.    Other than keep applying penetrating oil and waiting and tinkering I'm not sure what to do but that.    If I break the fan it's game over seems to me.    And I am in no big hurry other than my main workshop work bench is covered with tools and blower parts.\

BTW I looked real good at the blower and found no model number on it.    It is a champ from Lancaster and has similar Pat and Pending numbers on the top cover as my other one. 

IMG_1762[1].JPG

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No impact wrench? I used a 3/8" impact wrench and socket to remove the one on my 400. I held the fan carefully and went easy with it. 

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I remember a chainsaw I had with the repairer and he kept on telling me he could not undue the clutch and that he had it in wd40 for days and bla bla.

I took the chainsaw back, and built a contraption that had two lugs to go in the two holes in the clutch, welded a nut on it and it came apart at the first go with the impact wrench. 

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Yup. impact did it.   

But grr.   NOw I am down to no good way of holding the shaft to turn the fan to get it off.     Gonna have to make a tool to fit the slot in the shaft and jam up on the nut on the opposite side so as not to screw up the threads.   Then maybe another tool to hit several fan blades to turn it.  THough I think my handled bending fork might do the trick.  Though maybe a heavy folded towel on channel locks on the shaft might work.    Seems to me these things are not made to come apart very easily without some special tooling or a bit of luck.    I saw that it is not a great idea to try to jam up the gearing and use that to hold it.   

The fan shaft will come out of the blower end about 1/2".  THis seems wrong to me in that I would have thought the bearings would have been snugged up on both ends....  This might be a bad sign....???

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I used a long screwdriver to stop the gear to unscrew the fan. Just dont force anything. 

Dont know about the shaft coming out. 

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Get a wrench on the flats on the bearing race on the opposite end of the fan and just keep working it with plenty of oil. Either the fan or the race will come off....eventually.

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16 hours ago, Frozenforge said:

Get a wrench on the flats on the bearing race on the opposite end of the fan and just keep working it with plenty of oil. Either the fan or the race will come off....eventually.

I am down to only the fan left.    No nuts or races on the opposing side.   And based on Frozens pic above and my pic below it there is another bearing and nuts and races behind the bearing cap which is between the Fan and the bearing (seen in my pic).   That cap has two flats that make me think it is screwed in.   You can see one of those flats between the fan spokes just above my finger.    So either the fan has to come off or the cap has to come off.    If the fan comes off then perhaps the shaft slides out the back.   If the cap comes off then the shaft and fan and bearing can come out the fan side.   Perhaps this cap is not threaded in but rather a snug fit like a hub cap?   I dunno.   But this is being a bear.

Keep in mind that this is old an no telling when it was last taken apart.   No doubt you already figured that.   BUt that it also went through the fabulous 500 year flood of 2016 in Louisiana and it held it's breath under water for about three days.    IT has been sitting rather neglected since then in my tractor shed.   It is dry in there but hot.   

On 5/28/2018 at 2:49 PM, Daswulf said:

I used a long screwdriver to stop the gear to unscrew the fan. Just dont force anything. 

Dont know about the shaft coming out. 

Which gear?   The worm or the brass one.    I read that holding the brass one is a no no.

On 5/28/2018 at 5:23 PM, Irondragon Forge & Clay said:

Instead of a folded towel, I would use a strip of leather or thin lead.

Good idea.    Thanks

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Had to be the brass gear the way it turns. Since it's just sitting here I got some pics. If you are not comfortable with it or takes any force to make you worry then dont. Apparently mine wasn't too bad. 

IMG_29052018_190740.jpg

IMG_29052018_190729.jpg

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 I say it one more time. Impact wrench.

Any attempt to jam the gears in order to apply a radial force to the nut is dangerous. Those gears are not designed to take such force.

An impact wrench works using the inertia in the shaft and fan and hits the nut with a radial impact rather than a static force. No need to jam up the gears at all. 

Just use an impact wrench and a socket, nothing else. 

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17 hours ago, Marc1 said:

 I say it one more time. Impact wrench.

Any attempt to jam the gears in order to apply a radial force to the nut is dangerous. Those gears are not designed to take such force.

An impact wrench works using the inertia in the shaft and fan and hits the nut with a radial impact rather than a static force. No need to jam up the gears at all. 

Just use an impact wrench and a socket, nothing else. 

The problem is I have no nuts let to mess with.

Yeah yeah sounds like a personal problem..??     

All that is left is the fan and it doesn't want to budge.   And there is no nut to put a socket on.    BUt I'll get it.   I'll rig up the impact to be able to turn the fan at the spokes I guess.  Or something.      I am not in a huge hurry....   yet.   Just some final tool rigging.   And no I don't wanna use the screwdriver approach.   I keep reading that can really mess you up.   The nut I am pointing to is off (pic above).    That fan is not threaded tight since there is nothing to thread tight against.    You would think it would be just loose...    It is just somehow seized enough to make me nervous.    BUt I am going to go with patience on this one since I still have that pesky day job that ties up much of my time.   Thanks for all the help.   I'll let you know when I get er done.

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If it's like mine the spokes part of the fan is brass and an impact on that could be iffy. Perfectly understandable not to want to use the screwdriver. I only needed it to hold the shaft still enough to get the fan off on mine. 

Got another nut that will fit the shaft to lock the other nut so you can get it started holding the shaft with a wrench?

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Ha ha ... hum no nut left? I assume the nut is worn, out of shape, rounded off? A picture wuld help. 

One solution. tack weld a socket to whatever is left of the nut and apply the rattle gun to it with extreme prejudice.

Or weld another nut to the other nut ... :P

If you have already removed the nut, and the fan is rusted to the shaft, you need to apply some heat with an oxyacetylene torch (small one) and use a pulley extracto to pull the fan off. Very carefully. 

Too many ifs ... post a pic pleeeese. :)

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I thought this topic had been covered before, so I looked through the past couple pages of the bellows/blowers section and found this. Should solve your issue (along with a generous penetrating oil soak)

 

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THAT will probably work.    This fan has become very stubborn.    There is just no good or obvious way to hold the shaft without some sort of potentially distructive modification or special tools, nuts etc...       More than once I was heading towards "You are coming off even if you break!"  mentality.    But so far I have avoided it.    I'll need to get a bigger socket than what I have.       

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