clydsdale horses

[hdwarner]

i think thats how you spell it
anyway came home from work today , and across the way at a wine and liquor store the budweiser team was there with the clydsdales and the carriage
my first thought was horse shoes {of course everything relates to metalworking somehow right}
i have no idea what i am talking about but i would venture to say those horse require a lot of steel and a lot of coal forging those shoes to fit.

those fine animals probally get the best of care , anyone know anything about this subject?

[keykeeper]

They were stabled at our local fairgrounds once a couple years ago. They were driving the team at a festival/parade in the next county over. I got to walk around and ask questions of the folks that handle them. I'm sure they have a staff farrier that travels with them. There were a total of 12 horses I think in the "hitch". The hitch is what they call the team, wagon, dalmation, etc. as a whole. They had three tractor trailers that move them around from place to place. That includes all the equipment that they bring. They also had a passenger van to shuttle staff around. My wife and I went out and watched them grooming and feeding them. What an operation. The staff stayed in a local hotel. They also contracted with local law enforcement folks to provide security at night to protect the horses when everyone else was away. I heard someone say that the three trailers and equipment were worth about $3 million.

One of the ladies working for the hitch told me there were 5 different hitches nationwide.

Google budweiser clydesdales, there is plenty of info on the horses at one of there corporation sites.

-aaron c.

[irnsrgn]

The highlight of my shoeing career was helping my dad put one of the shoes back on when I was a kid of about 10 or 11 or so, their farrier was sick or something. Talk about a big horse, this was back in the 1950's sometime as I recall. They brought it down in front of the blacksmith shop. Dad told me to check the foot left hind as I recall and remove the nails and clean the hoof up. The handler about had a fit. They had their own nails, biggest horseshoe nails I had seen at that time. Biggest Shoe too.

[chyancarrek]

KeyKeeper,

My experience with the Bud horses was similar - we were showing horses at the state fair and the hitch was there - I remember in the bright & early their handlers would bring them out one at a time - throw on a bridle and walk them around riding bareback - it must have been like sitting a fuel tanker.

The handlers were about my size (6' +) and they looked like little kids up on that huge ol' back!

Pretty darn impressive!

[nett]

The wagons are Studebakers. They participate in our town May Day parade (the oldest continuously run parade in the state of California) then parked down at the fairgrounds for the ensuing fair during the weekend. The horses are big and nice, you just don't need to get close to enjoy them.

The wagon, however, is another story. I climbed under it and inspected it throughly. Suspension, brake drums, wheels, woodwork beefed up with lots of iron. Well engineered, just like their Studebaker cars were many years later, or the wheelbarrows made by John Studebaker in the California goldrush days.

In 1853 in Hangtown a friend offered newcomer Johnnie Studebaker a job making wheelbarrows, which were in great demand. Studebaker

[hdwarner]

WOW thanks everyone
Hey NETT thanks for the info on studabaker for some reason my father is a big studabaker fan and he will get a kick out of the origins of the company he may have already known but i will tell him anyway

Again thanks everyone for sharing thier personal experiences with these magnificent animals , what a wealth

[irnsrgn]

Nett, your studebaker history is a bit off, he sewed the gold nuggets into his coat and went around the horn to go home, and bought out another of brother who wanted to farm, with the new influx of money, the business prospered.

I am proud to have found a Book put out by the Studebaker Company in the 30's for its stockholders. The first half is a history of the Studebaker Company and the last half is a financial statement of the company for its stockholders.

I cruise every antique mall and used and old book store that I can find for old Technical manuals and interesting old books. I have an extensive collection of the Audels Manuals, no where complete but those old books are very interesting to me. My last addition is the 8 volume Engineers and Mechanics Guide in almost new condition acquired for $20 for the set. And I am the proud owner of the third edition of the Machinists Handbook, not Machinerys Handbook. I did find a 2cnd edition in an antique mall in Waterloo, Ia, just down the street from the motel where the National Blacksmiths, Welders and Machinists Convention was being held. An older shopman friend saw it and as he was a good friend I eventually let him have it as my 3rd edition was in better shape. I gave $2.50 for it, and he handed me $40 and was so happy to get it, he was almost in tears.

I don't know how many of those Studebaker books were put out, But as they were a special edition for the stock holders, I feel very privelaged and lucky to have been able to obtain a copy.

Oh, by the way my old Military Winch Truck is a 1953 Studebaker, and I took a pile of pieces and restored this for a friend. His Grandfather bought a New Studebaker Farm Wagon and the dealer gave him a kids version for his children to play with.

We think its a Studebaker, but no way to really be sure. Work horses smashed it up when they got where they weren't supposed to be in the barn, left rear wheel all that was left was the hub. All new spokes in the rear wheels and a new one piece rim. one front rim needed replaced, and I used some of the rear spokes to replace some of the front ones.

[nett]

irnsrgn, I appreciate my history is off but it's the story us Californians like to tell, plus implying (implying is the operative word) the first Studebakers were wheelbarrows makes a great story even if it's not entirely true. I've always had my eyes open for any old wheelbarrows to try and identify one, but I suspect they are kinda like George Washington's axe; the head was replaced three times and the handle six, but it's still George Washington's axe. I believe only one documented wheelbarrow survives.

I love Studebakers, I own two myself, a '38 Commander and a '50 Land Cruiser.

I bought an old edition of Audels four volume carpenters and builders guide back in 1968 for a whopping four bucks. I have read them cover to cover many times, especially the How to Use the Steel Square section, and learn something new every time. I notice Audels are still in print today, but I enjoy my old copies with the genuine leatherette covers. I also have the four volume Masons and Builders guide with the red pebble leatherette covers and realized I haven't spent enough time reading them, there is a lot of material I glossed over because it didn't interest me at the moment. Hmm, maybe I can forge a masons hammer when I learn how to use one properly.

[John B]

Clydesdale shoes, big ones, an old farrier friend of mine used to shoe them and regularly forged the shoes using a piece of steel 24" long for each shoe, and that particular horse was only a "young 'un"

[habu68]

At Rock Ledge Historic site in Colorado Springs we have a Shire stud that was slightly taller, though not quite as massive as a Clydesdale. A true gentle giant. We had a set of shoes in the blacksmith shop including one that had the hoof trimming re-nailed to the shoe to show the kids how a shoe was nailed to a horses' "toe nail" . The shoe was a full 13" across the heel and a set of show shoes weights about 2 1/2 lbs each and are used to get the horse to walk with a high lifting gate. It was fun to pass it around and then have the boys to smell the Toe Jam.

I'm no farrier so my terms and discriptions may be some what off, It was still one impressive horse hitched to a 2 wheeled pleasure cart and the 65 year old lady owner driving him like he was a Shetland pony.

[hdwarner]

24 inches that is long , so if you divide 24 by pie {3.1416} it is a 7and 5/8 circle
thats just rudimentary math to give myself an idea how big those hoofs really are
thanks for the info

[tzonoqua]

I've got one of those big old shoes out in the workshop- it was given to me by my local farrier who donates his shoes to me (well, not HIS shoes, but the ones he pulls off horses:))

It was completely covered in rust- apparently had been sitting in someone's barn for years. I put it in some preparatory rust remover to clean it up and forgot about it for a few days. (Very silly of me.) I will take a pic tomorrow, its definitely made of wrought iron as the grain has been etched - wow what a texture!

It is a shame that these heavy breeds are in decline, such beautiful things.

My grandfather, a Friesian Farmer, used to make miniature replica wagons similar to the one pictured earlier. We used to play with it when we were kids, hitch the "team'' of china horses to it and get into BIG trouble from my grandma!!

-Colleen

[irnsrgn]

I hate to rain on your parade Nett, but the Studebakers were building wagons before the one brother went to Calif. The Shop built a wagon for the wagon train and traded it for the brothers passage on the train, The Studebaker wagon had no break downs on the way but many others did and the brother kept a record of the breakdowns and sent them back to the family shop, so that the wagons could be improved.

When the train got to Calif, Someone asked if there were any wagonmakers among them, the brother said he was, and was offered the job of makign wheelbarrows, he said no he came to hunt gold, and older gentleman told him to take the job as very few ever got rich hunting for gold, whereas making wheelbarrows was the way to go as it would assure him of making money. He took the advice and the rest is history.

Did you know that the British Army picked a stock Studebaker Wagon as their military wagon of choice and they sent a representitive to the US to OK the design and supervise there construction, by the time he got here, there were only a few wagons needed to be made to complete the order and he accepted them on the spot.

[nett]

Yes, John was a wagon maker. John Studebaker came from a long family of wagon makers. His father was a wagon maker, his grandfather was a wagon maker.

His father trained all five sons in the trade.

John's $8,000 nest egg from California, allowed for expanded operations and formation of the Studebaker Wagon Corporation; they begin building wagons on a large scale.

John was named president when they incorporated, and his business savvy coupled with a superior product landed government contracts. I did not know about the British contract, that's cool.

California gold greased they ways to allow Studebaker to become what is was back in its halcyon days, and that stout little Studebaker wheelbarrow helped it happen.

It has never rained during our parade. Before and after, but never during it.

[Thomas Dean]

A few years ago I had the pleasure to be 'up close and personal' with one of the teams that had shown up at Christmas time for the "Lighting of the Courthouse" in Marshall, TX. I was totally blown away at how large and yet gentle these wonders were. I was 10yrs old all over again! And yes, I did ask for one of the used shoes explaining that I was a blacksmith and would just like to have one. The handler told me that one family does all of the farrier work now. IIRC, he said they are out of San Antonio, TX. When one of the horses needs a shoe, no matter where in the world they are, the farriers are flown out of San Antonio to do the horse. The shoes that are removed are sent to St. Louis, MO to be distributed from there. Most going to dignataries, polititians, and other "important" folks. And no, I didn't rate high enough to get one of the shoes. :(

[ThomasPowers]

Quad-State Blacksmith Round-Up used to be held at the Studebaker Family Homestead near Tipp City OH. They had one of the original Studebaker blacksmith shops there---hewn log construction as well as a collection of Studebakers that was very nice indeed. They even had a working weasel---a half tracked vehicle used in WWII (that particular one made in sweden under license).

Emmert Studebaker was still alive then and even into his 90's he still did a bit of smithing and was a true gentleman. He was also instrumental in founding of SOFA and is missed by every smith who knew him!

One of my memores of the first Quad-State I went to was lying in my tent at night and hearing 4 triphammers running as people worked on projects, a little 25# LG---ding ding ading; a 50# LG---bang, bang, bang; a 100# LG---Whomp Whomp and an airhammer---auhhhhwhap auhhhwap auhhhwap all at the Studebaker homestead.

[Rich Hale]

If anyone want a good forging exercis take a piece of half inch thick by 1 1/4" and about 19 inches long and forge a shoe from it. It is possible alone, but even better if you have a striker. The striker come in real handy when the shoe is fullered,,creased and the nail holes driven in. Most every large city has a shoeing contest of some sort and at those it is common to have a draft shoing competition that usually has three person teams. On work on the feet two make the shoes. You can check at a local horseshoe supply house to get info on your area. And if you are handy at times they may need a striker. In any case it is an opportunity to see metal worked hot by others. Always a good thing for me.

[Bentiron1946]

A few years ago I bought a Jim Keith cross peen hammer in New Mexico and Jim asked me if he could demo any thing for me as he is a former national champion ferrier. So I asked him to make a draft horse shoe. It took him less then six minuets to make it form bar stock. He apologized for taking so long as he was out of shape. He said at the nationals you would never know what they would give you to shoe in the final round, anything from a Shetland to Clydesdale and the year he won he had both. He markets a great line of hammers and anvils. The hammers he makes in his own shop.

[Confederate Forge]

Jim Keith makes some fine tongs too. Real good looking hammers. I just bought a 125lb JHM Journeyman anvil from his website a few weeks ago and he shipped it for FREE!:D

[Frank Turley]

Edward Martin, now deceased and formerly of Closeburn, Scotland, was the preeminent shoer of Clydesdales. He used to come to the U.S. frequently fo demonstrate for the farriers' associations.

Some shoes were forged from ½" x 1½" and some from ½" x 1¼". The length would vary from 22" to 25" or so, depending on whether heel calks were forged or not.

http://www.turleyforge.com Granddaddy of Blacksmith Schools

[Larry H]

I was a farrier for draft horses 15+ yrs, I kept one shoe....... you can put it around your neck, only one team of clydesdales, it was plenty, although Percheron's were the meanest

[John B]

Edward Martin, now deceased and formerly of Closeburn, Scotland, was the preeminent shoer of Clydesdales. He used to come to the U.S. frequently fo demonstrate for the farriers' associations.

Some shoes were forged from ½" x 1½" and some from ½" x 1¼". The length would vary from 22" to 25" or so, depending on whether heel calks were forged or not.

http://www.turleyforge.com Granddaddy of Blacksmith Schools

Not quite so big on these Frank



They were made by Mike Sully of Bristol some years ago, unfortunately Mike passed on some years ago, but this is a lasting memorial to him, and an inspiration for others to endeavour to achieve.

And this one was made by Bob Hobbs before he received the Gold medal award from the Worshipful Company of Blacksmiths



I am told you can recognise they are Clydesdales by their feathers on the legs

[Sask Mark]

I had the opportunity to watch the world farrier championship at the Calgary Stampede around 5 years ago. I only saw the 'regular' shoeing even where the competitors trim, measure and make 2 shoes from bar stock in an hour. Some amazing skill shown by the competitors.

I never had the opportunity to watch the draft horse events where a team of farriers do the same thing to a much larger pony. They did pass around a shoe made by one of the teams. It was pretty massive...

[Charles R. Stevens]

The largest hand made shoe I have personally made was 22" of 1x1 1/2" steel'for a shire. when hand forging I measure from heal to heal around the ground surface and subtract twice the bar width.
I curantly own a clydsdale mare, and it takes 18" to shoe her. Her foot is 8" wide and long.
For shows, scotch bottom shoes are used, the foot is encouraged to flare, and the shoe is set full adding 1 1/2-2" to the width of the foot. A good deal when working in marshy ground, and it makes a bigger foot for the show ring.

[John NC]

This is a photo of a shoe from one of Samuel Smith's Shire horses. We took a tour of the brewery that ended in the stable. I asked one of the stable hands where in the world they bought shoes for these enormous beasts he replied "We mek 'em oorsefs" in his best Yorkshirese. As we were leaving he slipped me this shoe to take home. It's made from 1" X 1/2" from what I can see.