Please help me ID this 400lb Anvil

[John09040]

This anvil came out of CSX railroad blacksmith shop in Huntington WV it has no markings weighs 400lb its 34.5" length 14.5" tall and 6" wide. It has no serial numbers or stamps in it that I can find anywhere.

[Daswulf]

If you can get us a better picture"s" of the side with the horn to your right and also on the front of the foot under the horn. 

[John09040]

I will get some more 

[Daswulf]

Also get the other side with the horn to the left. Sorry I was thinking Trenton but now Hay Budden.  forgive me. I'm a bit preoccupied with baby. 

[John09040]

Pic#7 is the side with the horn facing left.The other anvil that came out of the same shop was a 500lb Hay Budden.

 

[Daswulf]

I dunno I'm not catching any marks from the photos but I'm guessing a Hay Budden. 

 

They weren't always marked the best. But I " think" that hour glass shape depression was hay Budden. 

 

Regardless, if the rebound is good then it's a good anvil. 

Someone else will be around soon enough to help more then my scatter brain self today... 

[RobS]

The rough finish of the body and lack of visible maker, and hourglass shaped bottom leads my guess to Hay Budden also.  They tend to have terrible visibility on their stamp.  

 

[John09040]

Thank you. There's no markings anywhere on it I have cleaned it and looked everywhere on it. It does have excellent rebound. Someone may be able to tell by the construction who built it. There was a 500lb Hay Budden right beside it in that shop though.

[RobS]

The "construction" is common among many makers.  Without a stamp, its a best guess.  Different makers did tend to have little differences such as the depression in the bottom though.  That helps the guess.

[John09040]

Heres my smaller one 160lb Hay Budden.

[ThomasPowers]

I thought I could see a bit of a number marking on the front foot; can you look there real carefully?

[jlpservicesinc]

I'd say Trenton..    The early Hay Buddens and even the 2nd or 3rd Gen didn't have such a nicely finished depression in the base..  The Trentons on the other hand had the Close die bases and the impression in the bottom is really clean..   It's hard to tell if it's a Trenton since the waist weld is not there..  It's be my guess..

[John09040]

47 minutes ago, ThomasPowers said:

I thought I could see a bit of a number marking on the front foot; can you look there real carefully?

I can't find anything on it 

[otisdog]

My take is that it wasn't forged by any of the above suggestions makers. Huntington, West Virginia was home to the Baltimore & Ohio Railroads large steam shop. This is where they had the ability to do anything needed to service the very large steam locomotives that hauled the heavy coal trains through the adjoining mountains. They had no problem forging replacement side rods and other massive pieces needed to keep the locomotives running....so it would be no problem to knock out an anvil.  It would be cheaper than buying it, no doubt.

They often used an existing "store bought" anvil as  pattern, so it is no surprise that the folks posting above can see simularities with other, known manufacturers. I have a 400 pound anvil that was made by the Southern Pacific Railroad shops in Sacramento, California (I think...Sacramento was the home of their large steam shops, just as Huntington was the home of the B&O shops, and my anvil came from Truckee, Ca. which is up the main line from Sacramento, but 5,787 feet higher in elevation.). My anvil is a dead ringer for a Hay Budden, but it has no identifying marks on it of any kind. The only thing that ties it to the railroad is the very distinct green paint that the S.P. painted all their maintenance tools, and where it came from.

So that's my theory...Mine rings like a bell, and has great rebound. I enjoy this anvil so much I sold my 400 pound Fisher.

Oh, and very nice anvil. What happened to the 500 pound Hay Budden?

[ThomasPowers]

If they were making their own I would wonder why they would do the base depression.

[otisdog]

Maybe the same reason that the others did their base depressions?

[John09040]

The guys brother that I purchased this one from has the 500lb Hay Budden

1 hour ago, otisdog said:

My take is that it wasn't forged by any of the above suggestions makers. Huntington, West Virginia was home to the Baltimore & Ohio Railroads large steam shop. This is where they had the ability to do anything needed to service the very large steam locomotives that hauled the heavy coal trains through the adjoining mountains. They had no problem forging replacement side rods and other massive pieces needed to keep the locomotives running....so it would be no problem to knock out an anvil.  It would be cheaper than buying it, no doubt.

They often used an existing "store bought" anvil as  pattern, so it is no surprise that the folks posting above can see simularities with other, known manufacturers. I have a 400 pound anvil that was made by the Southern Pacific Railroad shops in Sacramento, California (I think...Sacramento was the home of their large steam shops, just as Huntington was the home of the B&O shops, and my anvil came from Truckee, Ca. which is up the main line from Sacramento, but 5,787 feet higher in elevation.). My anvil is a dead ringer for a Hay Budden, but it has no identifying marks on it of any kind. The only thing that ties it to the railroad is the very distinct green paint that the S.P. painted all their maintenance tools, and where it came from.

So that's my theory...Mine rings like a bell, and has great rebound. I enjoy this anvil so much I sold my 400 pound Fisher.

Oh, and very nice anvil. What happened to the 500 pound Hay Budden?

Thank you.  Thats very interesting.

1 hour ago, ThomasPowers said:

If they were making their own I would wonder why they would do the base depression.

Thats the same thing I wonder seems like only a anvil mfg would do that.

[ThomasPowers]

Or get it that clean.

[John McPherson]

I can see what looks like a Trenton diamond in the last picture; oblique lighting would help.

[otisdog]

1 hour ago, ThomasPowers said:

Or get it that clean.

Look at a forged locomotive side rod....they look polished.  The tradesman in the locomotive shops were some of the most skilled of their craft.

As far as the bottom depression - that's there so that the anvil sits properly and doesn't rock, correct? Why would you go to the trouble to forge an anvil, and omit a detail that helps its' functionality?

 

[John09040]

47 minutes ago, John McPherson said:

I can see what looks like a Trenton diamond in the last picture; oblique lighting would help.

I see what your talking about but its not I have had it wiped down with a flash light at every angle no stamps whatsoever 

[ThomasPowers]

Because there are many many ways of mounting it where that doesn't make any difference?  Many times they were more of a selling point than a positive.  "Anvils were used for over 2000 years before they started putting a depression in their base---but you better get one with it!"

[John09040]

[Frosty]

Oblique lighting is best, the flash is NOT your friend photographing shiny metal the reflection glares out detail. If you have to use the flash cover it with a single ply of tissue paper to diffuse the light. 

My Lancaster pattern swage block came out of the Alaska Rail Road foundry. They were a journeyman project for the RR foundrymen and the RR gave them to the old Alaska Road Commission maintenance shops. The new shop foreman was cleaning things out and I got a call from the welder telling me I could have it or it was going to the scrapper. It's in my shop now but try as I might I couldn't talk the into letting me have the 250 lb. Fisher anvil they never use. They know what it is though. <sigh>

RR shops were like small industrial cities and lots of things were made as training projects, a closed die forged anvil wouldn't surprise me.

Frosty The Lucky.

[Marc1]

All I can see is a number 7 in the centre of this picture.