jds653q Posted April 26, 2018 Share Posted April 26, 2018 Ok so I am taking a try at forge welding 1084 and 15n20. This is the first time I have bought steel and know what it was everything else I have ever done or forge welded has been scrap metal but I did have success welding it. I tried welding these materials tonight without success. Is it possible the the new steel has a oil or some kind of residue that I didn’t notice that would cause the issue of it not welding together? Thanks for your answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buzzkill Posted April 26, 2018 Share Posted April 26, 2018 Most new steel has mill scale or other coatings to prevent/retard rusting. If you do not remove this layer you will have difficulty welding the steel. I always grind until I have a surface of fresh shiny steel before stacking it. If you have a belt grinder this should be a fairly quick operation. A flap wheel on a 4.5" grinder also does a reasonable job. Regardless, get and keep those surfaces clean if you want good welds. If you do the prep right, use flux, and reach the appropriate temperature you should have no real trouble welding1084 to 15N20. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted April 26, 2018 Share Posted April 26, 2018 as stated in the knife making classes, the steels need cleaned and de scaled before welding, so yes, Also you didnt tell us anything about what you did or how you tried to weld for all we know you tried to weld them cold Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jds653q Posted April 26, 2018 Author Share Posted April 26, 2018 Thanks I appreciate it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Carnecchia Posted April 26, 2018 Share Posted April 26, 2018 Definitely clean them up, those should be about the easiest two steels to get to stick. If you give your method, it should be pretty easy to figure out what went wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jds653q Posted April 26, 2018 Author Share Posted April 26, 2018 I cut them to length and put them in a vice welded them together heated them put on flux heated to forge welding temp and hammered and fluxed 4 times like I have before. The mistake I made was not cleaning the steel. I thought it would be fine since it was brand new. Like I said I’ve never bought new steel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Carnecchia Posted April 26, 2018 Share Posted April 26, 2018 Gas or coal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted April 26, 2018 Share Posted April 26, 2018 didnt tell us what flux either Must be a secret. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jds653q Posted April 26, 2018 Author Share Posted April 26, 2018 Coal, bright yellow I dont have a thermometer. Mule team borax. I have forge welded several other things together in the past I am just new to the new steel. I’ve done Damascus before with files and an old saw mil blade Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Carnecchia Posted April 26, 2018 Share Posted April 26, 2018 .I don't know much about coal, but I have a couple things that may be helpful. First, flux. Don't over do it. It isnt glue. Any flux that winds up in the billet needs to be squeezed back out before anything welds. Second, your hammer blows energy has to travel all the way through the billet, so don't do a 4" stack. Also make sure your hammering the entire area so all the flux gets squeezed out. Best of luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jclonts82 Posted April 27, 2018 Share Posted April 27, 2018 I don't remember who, but someone regular on here (TP?) has stated he likes to get the coal or lump charcoal smoking hot, then turn off the air all together before putting the billet in the fire. This is to make it as reducing (no oxygen present) of an environment as possible. Excess oxygen can form scale on the surface of each layer, that will inhibit welds. I decided I was not patient enough, nor attentive enough to use coal, its what I started out on, but then I built propane and likely will not go back. Also, FYI the higher carbon steel cannot take as high of a temp as less carbon steels. the more stuff (carbon, etc...) in the steel, the lower the melting point Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will W. Posted April 27, 2018 Share Posted April 27, 2018 I prefer to flux my billet immediately after arc welding all the corners, theres usually just enough heat in the piece to start melting the flux and get it in between the layers. Then you can throw it in the fire and give it air right away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted April 27, 2018 Share Posted April 27, 2018 New steel is usually coated to prevent corrosion and not just oil. If you didn't clean it thoroughly you have no idea what was contaminating the joint. Frosty The Lucky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jds653q Posted April 27, 2018 Author Share Posted April 27, 2018 Thanks for the advice and help. Ok, so i figured out today why i was struggling so much to forge weld these two steels. I found out today that the company i bought the steel from made a mistake and sent me a steel I've never seen or really even heard of, it was aebl steel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jclonts82 Posted May 1, 2018 Share Posted May 1, 2018 Yup. that 13% chromium will get ya! It will form chrome oxides that are not easy to deal with and weld through. Answer found... kinda liberating isnt it? which one was the AEBL? the one supposed to be 1084, or supposed to be 15n20? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted May 1, 2018 Share Posted May 1, 2018 They should replace it with the correct alloy cost free. Have you asked or did they offer? Forge welding chrome alloys above maybe 1% requires aggressive and toxic flux and serious PPE. Good to know it's not you it's the steel isn't it? Carry on. Frosty The Lucky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jds653q Posted May 1, 2018 Author Share Posted May 1, 2018 9 minutes ago, Jclonts82 said: Yup. that 13% chromium will get ya! It will form chrome oxides that are not easy to deal with and weld through. Answer found... kinda liberating isnt it? which one was the AEBL? the one supposed to be 1084, or supposed to be 15n20? yes very liberating!!! It was the 15n20. 6 minutes ago, Frosty said: They should replace it with the correct alloy cost free. Have you asked or did they offer? Forge welding chrome alloys above maybe 1% requires aggressive and toxic flux and serious PPE. Good to know it's not you it's the steel isn't it? Carry on. Frosty The Lucky. yes they contacted me this morning and they are working on replacing it. Yes it was very good to know it wasn't me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted May 1, 2018 Share Posted May 1, 2018 It's good to do business with a reputable company. Might be worth mentioning the name in passing, not as an advertisement but endorsing a reputable company shouldn't get xxxed out and I think the company deserves a mention Frosty The Lucky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jds653q Posted May 1, 2018 Author Share Posted May 1, 2018 I was planning on it once everything works out. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLAG Posted May 1, 2018 Share Posted May 1, 2018 The suspense is building up to a crescendo. Who IS the supplier? SLAG. Valid point Steve. (supra). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted May 1, 2018 Share Posted May 1, 2018 we dont even know what country, getting any info from this guy is like pulling teeth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremy k Posted May 1, 2018 Share Posted May 1, 2018 I wouldn't be concerned with "Who" the supplier is, as long as they corrected the error, mainly as a miss shipped order can easily happen to anyone, anywhere. Yes it's an inconvenience, but it happens, no reason to publicly chastise a company over a minor mistake that they are correcting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLAG Posted May 1, 2018 Share Posted May 1, 2018 Jeremy, Sir, I had no intention of chastising the company. It was stated that that company was an honest merchant. Hence my request for its name. SLAG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremy k Posted May 1, 2018 Share Posted May 1, 2018 I was in no way directing my comment at anyone - just saying how I myself view this mishap. I have gotten wrong items that were not what I ordered, and after contacting every company that I've had this happen with, All have remedied the situation with no quarrels. And I still purchase from all of them to this day. Things like this are a very minor speed bump in life, to me anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted May 1, 2018 Share Posted May 1, 2018 Indeed, everybody screws up no surprise there. Mentioning a company by name for quickly resolving mistakes is a good thing. Not mentioning companies that don't resolve problems is just that silence. Somebody asks who's good to do business with . . . The one that doesn't just doesn't get mentioned. Nobody has to say anything bad, nothing negative. Good gets good words bad gets zippo. I agree, speedbumps are a fact of life but when someone helps smooth them they deserve a good word. No? Frosty The Lucky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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