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Grappeling Hook


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there was a show on history or discovery a few years back about coastal tree fallers.  they would climb the tree with spurs and a belt limbing as they went.  top, tie off and throw a small grapple and rope over to the next tree lower themselves and pull over to the next tree and rinse and repeat.  can't remember what the show may have been called.  but they were only touching the ground at the beginning and end of day.

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13 hours ago, jlpservicesinc said:

Before I will offer more info I need your age...  The thicker skinned trees do very well.. 

So  you are either too young to get it? or too old to handle it! :D

and thicker skinned blacksmiths  handle this site better!  

have you considered fixing the aforementioned swallow to your pack?  it may not be able to assist you in flitting from tree to tree  but it might perfect your technique when heading for the Forrest floor :) 

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I like your sense of humor..  Yes, it is true, to young or to old.. How many pull ups can you do? When was the last time you climbed a 3/8 or 1/2" rope?  LOL.. :) 

Not to get it, but to understand the dangers involved.. Last think I want to do is give information.. Unsupervised information to a younster and set them out without training..   This is pretty serious stuff.. It might seem like a joke kind of thing, but the potential for death is very high.. 

 problem is i know first hand the dangers involved with use of such a tool..  Luckily my training and perseverance has kept me from sustaining injury or death when such things fail..  which they do.. ive done a few 30' falls and a 50' fall once with nothing but some bruises and a few cuts.

I did bust an elbow 2 times on the same spot 2 years apart.. it propmted me to design a different kind of hook..

There is no guarantee of a hook being fully hooked as there is no way to see what it is hooked on..

The ability to climb rope smoothly is a best application of skill with a hook as any jerky movement can be disastrous.  

Again, I've been there.  As an example, one of my students as a test to see him fully understanding what has been taught (he was being a little cocky as young men can be)

Was given the task of climbing up a shack using my rope which is 1/8" static line.  There were 2 spotters..  any how he threw the hook and set it all properly done.. he climbed up the first 7' very smoothly, (i could see him fatiguing).

 

Then it happened he lunged for the next hand hold.  Next thing he knew he was on the ground flat on his back..

The students at this point have extensive trainung and experience with short falls like this and are taught how to land.. the spotters job is to correct only if there will be head or neck contact with the ground..  

This was his first "live" fire test..

After he gained his senses back from the shock of the fall i asked him what happened.. " With a humble look, he said " i was getting tired and forced the climb. He then said,  i was no where as in good of shape as i thought and can see now why you tell us to be smooth and fluid and to be good at something one must practice..

The training can be pretty intense and its a no "shame" zone..  if at anytime a person feels they arent up for something, all they have to do is say so.. i encourage this and opting out perfectly fine..

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Ninjutsu..  there is a ton of information on the web.. Some true, some not so true..  History being written by the victors has a lot to do with how things are looked upon,. With that in mind,   A Ninjustu person was eventually made Head of homeland security for the Emperor or Japan.. 

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I assume Jenifer wants the age info as much for liability as ethical reasons. We're getting a lot of folks asking for potentially dangerous info who are too young to make good judgment decisions. If a person wants to learn how to use grapnels in trees properly then they should be asking logging or tree surgeon services for a job.

We just had a tree service remove 5 trees I wouldn't have hesitated to cut before the accident and they climbed and topped one. Three of the other four they limbed and topped with a boom truck. We now have two really nice stacks of logs bucked to our specs and they'll lend us the splitter as part of the contract. Once the ground dries enough I'll get a group together to split, haul and stack it in the shed.

Properly used spurs do little damage even to thin barked trees, nothing compared to playing Tarzan or tree scientist. 

Frosty The Lucky.

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Learning dangerous skills on your own and by yourself tends to be Darwinian.  Unfortunately those of use blessed/cursed with the Y chromosome tend to go through a period when this sort of thing sounds like a good idea to us.

After walking over a mile out of the woods with a badly sprained ankle, (I decided crawling was going to be worse...) I learned to use the buddy system or leave info on where I was going so next time I'd have help.  I'm not going to describe some of the stuff I did free climbing; I'm still surprised I made it through to successful reproduction!

So; can you find a teacher for the skills you want to master?  Sure help you learn faster and learn what equipment you need!

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Frosty,  yes having at least some background knowledge as to the age can say a lot to what information is shared..  if someone pulls something off the net and uses it, so much to them.. 

I personally would never just share the information out of knowing the full potential for what can happen with miss use.  Been there, done that, got the ribbon and still walked up to get it.. :) 

Thomas,  I breath hold dive,  Free climb, have done deep water deco dives, cave diving, etc, etc...  I have never been injured with what I consider to be life threatening. (both elbows are just bigger now and it was only the tip that got broken). I have sustained some really bad injuries (99% work related) but not usually involved with any of the things mentioned other than Deep deco diving.. (type 2 hit) still have some paralysis on my left side..  Most can't see it as I have trained really hard to even things out and to help with regen of new nerve path ways. (same with back surgery, L4, L5 colapsed left side, diving related whos to say).  but it can be noticed when I smile or in bright sun light as one pupil will dilate more then the other and my face will only squint on the right vs left.. 

Irondragon forge and clay,,    I never had freinds like that with beer..   Everybody was sober.. :)  99% of my students went into the military and most tried out for SF, few made it and offered up the comment of " With the training they received there was nothing that SF threw at them that was new"..  And the ones that didn't finish said"  While in training i asked myself if this is something I really have a desire to do"..    Both of the answers or comments is what it's all about..   

Enough of the thread hijack.. 

What ever happened to the guy who asked the question?  LOL.. 

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My first real hook at age 8 was big bertha..  1/2" round triple hook...  I could barely lift her. she was bent in the middle to form the eye and my Dad welded in the 3rd hook after I bent it up..  Just some scrap 1/2" threaded end rod we had..  Everyday when I got home from school we'd be out just me and her trying to get her to work.. LOL..   She has probably 10,000hrs on her if not more..  I give her to all the new students to work with as she is a beast.. A proper/mastered throw is needed or she just laughs at you in disgust..   She taught me to throw with my whole body and to be accurate.. Her getting caught in the V of a tree was a climbing situation no matter how tired or fresh  I was..   It made me a much better climber.. 

I filmed todays training session and will post it to my personal page YT page.. Nothing exciting,  Jumping,  little hand to hand (with a newish student), some tree climbing, some slack rope work..  I'll see if it's worth even watching once its processed.. It takes a full day to convert the footage as it's a 360 video.. 

Here is a picture of a few hooks.. the large one is for students.. My personal ones are the smaller.  

As a side note the rope dictates hook size.. 

20180428_172518.jpg

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56 minutes ago, Steve Sells said:

It is not so much that we got smart in our old age,  its more of a running out of crazy things to try that havent already been done

True words. I finally figured out what all the pain was for. 

Frosty The Lucky.

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5 hours ago, HammerMonkey said:

I hope the video passes muster Jennifer!  I’d love to see the real deal. :ph34r:

You'd have to go elsewhere..   Ninjutsu isn't a flashy marital art..  Some would argue it's quite crude..  Not only that "He's a new student".. In order to really show it, you need a skilled Uke (training partner) or else they just get hurt..  It will be mainly climbing skills related.. 

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On 4/28/2018 at 2:30 PM, jlpservicesinc said:

What ever happened to the guy who asked the question?  LOL.. 

I am right here.

On 4/28/2018 at 5:28 PM, jlpservicesinc said:

My first real hook at age 8 was big bertha..  1/2" round triple hook...  I could barely lift her. she was bent in the middle to form the eye and my Dad welded in the 3rd hook after I bent it up..  Just some scrap 1/2" threaded end rod we had..  Everyday when I got home from school we'd be out just me and her trying to get her
 

You, sir, have been very helpful, pointing out all the things I don't know (A lot). I never considered that a single hook would be better then a triple or quadruple hook. Wouldn't the off balance hook be detrimental to accuracy?

and its MA’AM not sir

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7 minutes ago, Owen Hinsman said:

I am right here.

You, sir, have been very helpful, pointing out all the things I don't know (A lot). I never considered that a single hook would be better then a triple or quadruple hook. Wouldn't the off balance hook be detrimental to accuracy?

Still waiting on your age.. :)  

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1 hour ago, Owen Hinsman said:

I am right here.

You, sir, have been very helpful, pointing out all the things I don't know (A lot). I never considered that a single hook would be better then a triple or quadruple hook. Wouldn't the off balance hook be detrimental to accuracy?

and its MAM not sir

Admin guy: There're two As in Maam.  :ph34r:

Frosty The Lucky.

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Just now, Owen Hinsman said:

13 and one half

Thanks for the honest answer.....     So lets start here..     Do you forge now?  Are you interested in forging? 

The smaller hooks are made out of 5160 and fully hardened and tempered, and proof tested for weight holding..   The black rope is a static line made from Spectra (same stuff used in fishing line).. If this was strung across from one tree to another and a person fell on it from 15ft it would cut them in half... it has 0 stretch and this 1/8" line is rated at something totally ridiculous at around 1700lbs..  a 5ft fall onto it could potentially send you to the hospital.. 

Paracord or 550 cord is a big no, no..   the outer sheath is weak and it's made up of strands inside that are only rated at 70lbs each.. Which means an inner cord can break and you won't even know about it.. After a few uses you can be down to only 1 or 2 strands and then it's ???? 

The rope you see of the bigger size is a training rope for students..  It is an arborist rope and is a synthic blend with natural cotton fibers added in for suppleness..  It's an older linesman rope and is 30+ years old... The newer rope of the same kind is now all synthetic  and a little bit tougher to break in.. 

No, forget about balance (balanced hook) and throwing.. The rope is always the limiting factor on throws and it acts like a tail on a kite..   There are different types of throws.. 

under hand, side hand, and over hand.. There is also a direct throw which is more like throwing a baseball but limited except for the smallest hooks or throw weights..  yes,  We use cam throw weights..   I've demonstrated the use of no hook at all with just using a rope..  It works very much like a rock climbing cam.. 

I would really suggest finding a tree climber to learn from.. Their methods are different than mine but it will get you headed in the right direction... 

Rope skills aren't really a prime skill in the Dojo any longer so can't point you there..  

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One last note...... Never,  Never, Never, ever look at a hook in use as a solid anchor point on anything....  Expect it to fail..  YES, Fail..  FAIL.. 

The only solid connection you have when you are in a tree is a rope tied or an anchor point using a sling that is directly tied to the tree and the rope you are on. I won't even use caribiners on my hooks.. Solid connections only or 3 separate dual wraps of 550 cord.  I only use the wraps on training ropes as the hooks will get swapped out on a single rope so its' easy to swap them and I have never had more than 1 failure out of the 3 wraps..   Keep in mind that all 3 can fail.. 

I've had hooks fail / fall out of tree's, rock, etc, etc maybe a few thousand times...   When used, they get tested properly and then after testing, you keep your weight on it.. If you ever let go of the rope, you test it again... 


Using a Grapnel or grappeling hook is a dangerous item to mess with.. common sense will help but it's no guaretee...  It can be more dangerous than a gun...  

I wish you the best and sadly I can't offer anymore than all ready mentioned...  I do caution against its use without proper training and following every safe guard you can.. 

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