Dillion Brian Grant Posted April 17, 2018 Share Posted April 17, 2018 Ok so, I am changing the wheels on one of my 6 inch bench grinders, I was going to replace them with some cloth polishing wheels, anyways, I got one of the wheels off but I am unable to get the nut off of the left side, does anybody have any ideas for how to do this? Nevermind, sorry for the bother everybody, I finally got it off Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave51B Posted April 17, 2018 Share Posted April 17, 2018 was it a left-handed thread? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dillion Brian Grant Posted April 17, 2018 Author Share Posted April 17, 2018 Actually yes lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daswulf Posted April 17, 2018 Share Posted April 17, 2018 Don't know if it's really bad for the tool ( haven't had an issue yet) but I use a 3/8" cordless impact driver to change wheels a bit easier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dillion Brian Grant Posted April 18, 2018 Author Share Posted April 18, 2018 What's sad is I guess from it having the same wheel for so long, the nut had gotten way tighter than it normally would be, and I didn't realize it was a left handed thread because after I forced it to stop spinning the nut would turn to tighten but I couldn't loosen it Finally it came loose tho Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted April 18, 2018 Share Posted April 18, 2018 Don't worry, it's easy. Fold the tool rest down out of the way or remove it if it's still in the way. You know which way the grinder turns, put a long handled box wrench on the shaft nut. Now for the magic part, point the wrench straight up, use it to turn the motor and let it slam into the bench. Once or twice will loosen the nut. Forget left or right hand threads The left hand is left hand thread and the right side is right hand or the motor would unwind the wheels every time you turned it on. Turning the grinder the direction it turns in use and letting the wrench on the nut stop it suddenly is turning the nut backwards and off either side. The mass and momentum of the motor and grinding wheels provides the punch. No, do NOT do this in reverse when you put the wheels on, hand tighten the nuts and turn it on. The motor accelerating the wheels will tighten them correctly. Frosty The Lucky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dillion Brian Grant Posted April 18, 2018 Author Share Posted April 18, 2018 Yup will do that next time that seems like common sense now rhat I think about it, I will definitely remember that next time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIGGUNDOCTOR Posted April 18, 2018 Share Posted April 18, 2018 Also some general wheel advice. Always make sure the blotters (paper discs) are in place, and do a ring test to check for cracks before mounting the wheel. When starting up, stand to the side for a couple of minutes, and use a good wheel dresser (star wheel or brick) and true the face up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted April 18, 2018 Share Posted April 18, 2018 Good safety tip Guns, thanks. Frosty The Lucky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arkie Posted April 18, 2018 Share Posted April 18, 2018 I've replaced beaucoup grinder wheels and the new ones never had to be dressed with a tool. Only the used, worn ones. Dressing a new wheel just unnecessarily removes wheel abrasive. Possibly the only ones that would need dressing would be very cheap aftermarket wheels that were out of round and/or the grinding surface was not parallel to the axis. and I wouldn't have one on my grinder for any reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smoggy Posted April 19, 2018 Share Posted April 19, 2018 Absolutely dress a newly mounted wheel everytime, not only is there no guarantee that the wheel is square to the spindle regardles of the quality of the make, there is no guarantee that it is perfectly round. The only way to know for sure is to dress it. Better safe than sorry, even the best quality and most discerning of fitters cannot guarantee total perfection everytime. As an aside if you do not have a wheel dressing tool you can use the old wheel you have taken of, or part of a broken wheel to dress with, it's a common practice in Europe and is akin to derssing hand grinding/honning/sharpening stones, they wear each other away. I use the method to not only dress grind wheels but at the same time redshape parts of wheels as sharpening stones...bonus! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted April 19, 2018 Share Posted April 19, 2018 I got to thinking about it and have to say I always check a new wheel but only dress it if it needs it. Most I've gotten were good out of the box and I know properly dressed stones I used to sharpen a LOT of machine tools and drill bits. Things can't be that different across the pond, what grits are you referring to Smoggy? I think I've ever only changed out a coarse wheel a couple times and don't recall how square or true they were. Frosty The Lucky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arkie Posted April 19, 2018 Share Posted April 19, 2018 Smoggy, It goes without saying that I check every new wheel for run-out, parallelism to the shaft and any "out of roundness". I use both visual examination and test pieces of scrap metal against the wheel. Still, as of yet with top quality wheels, I have not had to dress a new wheel. No need to dress indiscriminately if all the above parameters are acceptable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smoggy Posted April 19, 2018 Share Posted April 19, 2018 You use a peice of scrap metal to test against the wheel, then essntually you are dressing it in the sense that dressing is a check/correct/recheck process. If it happens to be fine then the job is done with your piece of scrap steel if not then you'll take further steps to correct. Dressing a wheel doesn't always require a full reface. Same as knife sharpening, it may only need stropping or it may need a full regrind. Frosty: Generally all. I've never mounted a wheel and found a problem yet but I know of others who have. I recall watching a fitter having serious problems mounting a wheel on a surface grinder to the extent that he finally regected it and took it back to the stores for another replacement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIGGUNDOCTOR Posted April 19, 2018 Share Posted April 19, 2018 The biggest issue I have with some new wheels are that they have those multi-piece plastic inserts so they will go on many different shank sizes. They do not always run true. And who says that you are putting a new wheel on? I have swapped out wheels to put wire wheels on, different grits, etc.. When they go back on they don't always run true again. At work I am constantly dressing the wheel to remove grooves, rounded corners, aluminum....... It is in a place where anyone can use it and it gets abused. I have brought this up before, but I need to do it again. Some of the mechanics are also the worst about messing the wheel up.. I try to educate them, but they don't listen most of the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smoggy Posted April 20, 2018 Share Posted April 20, 2018 ... and how many times have we gone to the grindwheel and found it choked up with aluminium...! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted April 20, 2018 Share Posted April 20, 2018 Tragedy of the Commons Wikipedia: The tragedy of the commons is a term used in social science to describe a situation in a shared-resource system where individual users acting independently according to their own self-interest behave contrary to the common good of all users by depleting or spoiling that resource through their collective action. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted April 20, 2018 Share Posted April 20, 2018 3 hours ago, Smoggy said: ... and how many times have we gone to the grindwheel and found it choked up with aluminium...! Not in my shop or one in which I was lead! You don't touch a power tool without me determining if you're qualified and conscientious enough to use it safely and without needless abuse. In fact I threw the stone dressing tool away because of the one guy who (Tragedy of the Commons Thank you Thomas + Dunning Kruger!) had to dress the wheel before and after every use. Happily he didn't know the name of the tool and couldn't order a replacement. We also had guys from the office regularly want to grind: aluminum, copper, brass, etc. and even complain when I ran them off. Actually unplugged the grinder a couple times. They of course just HAD to use my lathe tool sharpening wheels, they were nice don't you know. I ended up putting it in a lock box, only allowable because I'd purchased it out of my own pocket and had the receipt. Yeah, I've changed out I don't know how many wheels and have only come across a couple that didn't run true out of the box. I've never changed them on a surface grinder those are darned tight tolerance tools and require special care. Even in advanced "Occupational Heavy Metal" shop classes the instructor NEVER let anyone run the surface grinder without personally checking every aspect of set up and the operating plan of the student. As far as I know there are only a few allowable shaft sizes for grinders in the USA, dependent on the wheel size. However, I've been wrong so often I'll be more than pleased for the correction from someone in the know. Frosty The Lucky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smoggy Posted April 22, 2018 Share Posted April 22, 2018 Unsure on the range of sizes here in the UK, so had a quick check online, for general shop use probably just a handful, for more specialist stuff, far too may to be bothered to count! All are metric sized and most go to a decimal place......are US sizes in metric or Imperial? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anachronist58 Posted April 22, 2018 Share Posted April 22, 2018 (edited) On 4/20/2018 at 9:30 AM, Frosty said: Actually unplugged the grinder a couple times. As far as I know there are only a few allowable shaft sizes for grinders in the USA Frosty, I had keep a lockout device on our main pedestal grinder until the "Aluminum Phantom" finally gave up . Tragedy of the Commons. Very interesting discussion, and I am glad to see that everyone is playing nice. It makes for an enjoyable and constructive Forum experience. For what it is worth, I grind Carbide and High Speed Steel every night. The plant runs 24/7, such that there are five Operators utilizing the equipment. Speaking from twenty-eight years of experience, I submit that the spindle upon which the wheel is mounted is problematic, especially on lower end machines. In our Junk Museum, er, ahh, Twenty-first Century Tool and Cutter department, only one of the wheels that we use runs true consistently from machine to machine, and mount to dismount (except for the surface grinder). In Grind gri la, with the 1.5" system, for example, the Wheel Adapter, or Spindle, measures 1.50000". The Wheel Arbor Hole measures 1.5003" at 68° F. Alas, this never happens, and even if it did, anyone who has attempted to assemble a .0003" fit knows, that too much coffee, et cetera, can make that task impossible. While some may want me to get to the point, it is, after all, my day off. If anyone wants to know how a "trued" wheel can suddenly, under use, become out-of-round, if asked, I will explain. But here are two pieces of practical information. On any of my bench grinders that show themselves to be obstinate on the dismount, I cut a clean, heavy screwdriver slot in one end of the spindle to stop rotation. I also like to employ the "Frosty Slam" method, as stated above, by His Truly. Be careful to not let the wheel drag your fingers into a pinch point. The Second piece of advise as illustrated in the image below, is a long-standing practice, which seems to have faded from the memory of the profession, but is one of the most valuable rules for happy grinding: the new wheel has an index mark on the blotter adjacent to the arbor hole. One positions this mark at top-dead-center on the spindle. This, for me, is a Must Do for virtually every kind of wheel on every machine. It gives us a highly repeatable circumferential index, and many, many times, results in "dress-less" wheel changes. I hope that I am being clear in my presentation, Robert Taylor Mr Smoggy, Our plant is full of machines specified in either Imperial or metric, truly Cosmopolitan! Edited April 22, 2018 by Anachronist58 Addendum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted April 22, 2018 Share Posted April 22, 2018 Good grief man that's a LOT of grinding! I have trouble imagining doing so much I had to change wheels very often, the coarse wheel on my Delta 2" x 48" combination grinder is a good 35 years old but doesn't get a lot of use. My sharpening grinder's stones are probably 20 and I was gifted a bunch of brand new in the box fine wheels a couple years ago. I haven't bought a bench grinder in so long I have no idea what modern arbors are like but getting sloppy doesn't surprise me now you mention it. Another common method for knocking a wheel out of true is not having the rest adjusted properly and letting something get dragged in. Then again you're as likely to have to replace the gouged or broken wheel as dress it. I used to do that while the guy was at urgent care getting his fingers tended or debris cleaned out of his eyes. I'd drop him off then swing by the industrial hardware store for a new wheel. Keeping fresh ones in the shop just meant every idiot just HAD to have a new wheel for their intensely important thing. No fooling catch a brand new fine wheel so galled with brass it wouldn't even dress. The galling made the dressing tool bounce so badly it chipped the wheel. Real prize winner that one, irreparably ruin a brand new wheel in one use. I sure don't miss having to share my tools without being present to 86 folk who ignore MY rules. Not one of my wheels have round edges and I haven't had to dress one in I think 2 years. A friend was learning to sharpen drill bits so I made the wheel right. I don't recognize the wheels in the picture. Crush grinder maybe? Frosty The Lucky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daswulf Posted April 22, 2018 Share Posted April 22, 2018 59 minutes ago, Anachronist58 said: Frosty, I had keep a lockout device on our main pedestal grinder until the "Aluminum Phantom" finally gave up . Tragedy of the Commons. Kind of off topic but my friend and I at work had to keep the lock out plug protector on the mig welder after a couple of " young guys" completely " messed it up" and ran it out of wire after hours and left it like that. Took it off once they were no longer employed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anachronist58 Posted April 22, 2018 Share Posted April 22, 2018 Frosty, Those were from a Landis O.D. grinder, originally, about 1.5" wide x Ø16". I have not used that large of a wheel for some years now. those pictured are slated to become wheels for a bicycle grinder. I once had a technical understanding of crush grinding, but I have misplaced the index number on that mental file cabinet. 2" x 48"?!?! Would that be 48" in circumference, or diameter? Fortunately, over the years, I have acquired the tools and methods to restore, short of loss of structural integrity, even the most badly damaged wheels, if their replacement costs were high enough to justify the re-work. Daswulf, the Cord Cap Lockout, must surely be one of the greatest inventions ever. Robert Taylor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted April 22, 2018 Share Posted April 22, 2018 Sorry, I forgot to say it's a 2" x 48" BELT grinder with a 7" coarse wheel on the other side. 48" is the belt length, not the height of the grinder. Cord lockouts didn't work, there were wire cutters and plugs available like the one that got cut off my radio so he could ruin one of my wheels trying to sharpen a spud bar. What's the harm, he didn't like the radio station I listened to. I gotta stop or I'll be reliving things that made me mad years ago. It's a TBI thing if I don't deliberately work on it I'll spend the whole day remembering idiots who ruined tools and worse. Frosty The Lucky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anachronist58 Posted April 22, 2018 Share Posted April 22, 2018 Don't do it Jerry! our time is way too expensive for those guys to be wasting by space-time proxy. And thanks for clearing that up on your set-up - I've never seen a grinder that had to be started with a pony motor!!! Robert Taylor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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