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MIG problems


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Thanks for the pics of the bottles, Marc. At the time of purchase I was unaware that there were two types of gas. And I was talking to the gas guy at Bunnings about what I was doing - I got oxy and acetylene as usual and then asked him for Argon for the MIG. He didn't tell me I needed MIG gas. I won't make that $100 mistake again. Live and learn.

And I do use oxy - mainly for bending tight bends I can't fit in the forge and for welding small parts like horse shoe nails for toes of frogs.

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Dear gents, this is what a modern welding device shows this days. Accept polarity (DC-), heat input and welding preparations almost everything of an official WPS (Welding Procedure Specification) is mentioned on this parameters (wire speed, plate thickness, amperage etc.). For the hobbyists between us no big deal, but for the ones make reeling’s, stairs or pedestals for public use, very important.  After all you must improve the reliability of your welding’s in case of an accident. To create a reliable welding joint its necessary to obey a validated WPS.

Please don’t think too easy about the consequences about the welding you practice, especially if I see the passing posts about cranes and other heavy used equipment (presses, lifting devices etc.)

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Hans, I was specifically talking about and for making non-structural scrap art sculptures as that is what Aus is using it for. As far as structural, I would recommend he take welding classes. :P 

for anything structural you need to know what you are doing and what you are looking at as far as a quality weld. We have the fancy machines at work but you still have to know you got a clean good penetrating weld. 

 

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IN Canada you need to be a certified welder to do structural you have to at least pass a 4 position cwb plate test and for high pressure pipe its the asme code no ticky no worky on commercial or industrial projects.Department of labour dont mess around and if a guy say welds a handrail in a bar for example and the weld fails resulting in personnel injury there coming for ya.Alot of guys think they can weld but have never tested or worked in the trade other than there backyard,as for a machine that tells ya how to do it good luck with that.A wps is a guide sometimes it gospel and sometimes its a starting point and if your machine hasn;t been calibrated how would you know your meeting the wps welding parameters.I worked in a nuke fabplant at BW and every 30 days the welding machines had to be calibrated by a tech and a qc checked our amps, preheats and  interpass heats to make sure were in parameters. Me i like one dial on a acdc machine for stick and tig i dont care if its scratch tig or high freq.

LASt week i did buy a Lincoln square wave 200  for a tig alum job its got a few of those high teck settings it welds great but i turned one setting off and left 2 default settings on we played with them i didn't really notice much of a differance that speeding up or slowing down your welding speed and amp controll doesn't solve.

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I bought my stick welder more than 40 years ago, and while my structural welding is not always pretty, things seem to hold together OK. My first project was to weld a trailer to tow my trials motorcycle and camping gear on a round Australia trip. Some pretty rough country around Uluru, but no problems other than a flat tyre. I sold that trailer years later and as far as I know it's still serviceable.

My reason for buying a MIG was that I wanted to weld lighter material and I was tired of chipping off slag. I do very little structural welding and the MIG is used almost exclusively for scrap art and light decorative welding. That old stick welder with the dodgy rod holder and no earth clamp still sits in my workshop ready for action if need be.

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Hi Marc, after 30 years of GMAW(MAG) and SMAW (stick welding) experience, as an certified IWC-S (welding coordinator specific) and as ‘Work safety pope’ in the petrochemical industry, I faced several huge incidents coursed by wrong welding application with in some cases fatal consequences (fail of hydrostatic tests on pressure plates and wrong ‘golden welds’ on steam pipelines).  

So, sorry for the ‘amount of fancy display’ and mentioning the ‘Indian Guy’. I thought that a least a seller of welding equipment must be comfortable in the standard specification of welding technics. As already mentioned for most of the hobbyists no big deal, but for the ones welding critic equipment (reeling’s, stairs, cranes, presses) an important point to think about.

Please don’t take it personal, for me it’s only important to advert the importance of critical welds.

Your sincerely, Hans

B.t.w. I’m also very curios what was the basic reason of the mail function of Aus’s MIG/MAG/GMAW (whatever)-device :o       

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wrong gas: pure argon rather than argon/c02 mix.... doesn't burn hot enough, so you get very clean, but very high welds with no penetration... yes you can turn up the amps etc to try and make it work, but going by the look of those welds, i'd assume the welder was on the same settings that had been used for the argoshield gas.

plenty of youtube videos of people trying various gas mixes (e.g. keep the welder at the same settings, but change the gas mix being used) for comparison if you don't want to waste gas yourself experimenting (I found out the hard/expensive way by asking for a cylinder of 'argon' for mig welding; expecting to get a typical 'mig' mix, but instead got pure argon.)

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Your right about knowin what your doin when it comes to critical welding Hans ands theres a big difference from a pro welder with years of experiance and a guy who can weld that said me im not a fan of the fancy machines.To much to go wrong when your 200 feet in the air jammed in a vessel tryin to do an xray joint with leads goin every were to a bank of machines somewhere down there .All ya need really is your remote to work.If not your chasen leads for 2 hours all over the place trying to find the machine your on lol and for the guys that been there no what im talkin about.Those machines are nice in a fab shop setting but for a backyard guy there expensive to buy , fix and hard to understand.

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We get certified through I-CAR every 2 years. It's just some different coupon welds that they do a destruction test on. Different welds in different positions. Nothing fancy really. 

The most we get into is plug welds and butt welds with backing. Occasional silicon bronze stitch welds. The biggest challenge for us is how thin the sheet metal is and cleaning the area to be welded since they really get crazy with their adhesives, foam and seam sealers. 

It's refreshing getting to weld on thicker steel at home that you can really burn into. 

 

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Gents, I respect everybody’s opinion, only talk from my humble experience. Have seen many useful feedback past by (in several treats), especially  from you Marc. Didn’t take myself too serious and are open to facts I don’t mention before. Grant you, your chuckle, maybe done on the basis of your wisdom and experience.

Bubba, I love you (but Diana more:D) because of you feedback and understanding of the effects and impact of a BAD weld.

Still waiting on a reply of Aus and the real reason of the mail function of his welding device.

Cheers everybody, Hans

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Reason was, contrary to my predictions, wrong gas. Bunnings is our main hardware chain that is omnipresent and all encompassing and has incorporated welding gases recently in their inventory. Their staff when mostly friendly, are usually a bit aloof and clueless. I hope he can get the cylinder swapped without paying for another charge. 

If at all possible I prefer to buy from the specialist and not from them. A welding supplier would be my choice any time, but convenience and location for a country like ours is a big consideration ... sometimes the only consideration.  

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Hans i dont take to much serious lol its nice to talk with someone in the trade on another continent i don't no about the love thing but then again your European LOL ,never been to Belgium . Just France ,England ,Denmark and a few other places when i was in the Cdn army.

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Sorry for not replying earlier Hans. Remember, we are about 10 hours ahead of Belgium. I sleep sometimes. Anyway, in answer to your question, the malfunction was nothing to do with the machine. It was a malfunction of my brain (and poor advice from the gas supplier) in that I bought the wrong gas. Pure Argon instead of Argon mix for MIG.

Marc, I haven't had chance to get back to Cairns to swap the bottles. Our local Bunnings in Atherton is a smaller store and they don't have the necessary dangerous goods certification to carry gas. It's school holidays here at present and the Village Forge is pretty busy with lots of family visitors, so I won't get to Cairns for a few days yet. I don't think they will do straight swap, as I have broken the seals on the new bottle. I'll just have to wear the $100 loss and put it down to experience.

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Or try some stainless or aluminum welding with it.

Do they offer straight Co2? That should be a LOT less expensive, and it works great. Or hook up a CO2 cylinder from a soda machine....

In regards to gas quality. My friend was having fits welding steel with a TIG- porosity, bubbling, etc.. Turned out the Argon had some moisture in it. He tried a different supplier and wallah! Nice welds again...and a new supplier. 

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Thanks Aus, for the reply -hope you find a solution (right gas bottle) soon. Hope to see many nice scrap sculpture from you in the future to. Ones I have time I will scan some old fotos of scrap sculptures i made in the past, to share.  B.t.w. I spend about 45 euros on a 20ltr CO2/argon mix here in Belgium.

Wish you a nice weekend or what rests of it (+10h) 

Kind regards, Hans  

Hi Bubba, thanks 'soul mate' in welding, -my door and guest room are always open to all Australian or Canadian (and even North American) blacksmith brothers ;)

Have some good friends from Winnipeg/Manitoba and hope to visit them some day. Lisa my daughter is also a big fan of Canada and hope to spend some time there as o pair or student.

Thanks for this conversation and useful 'sparring' about welding stuff.

Cheers, Hans 

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 I use  98 % Argon 2% oxygen on steel for a flatter bead with deeper penetration and little or no spatter on both low carbon steel and stainless.

A new tip , in a clean nozzle running clean wire  on clean base metal with a solid ground connection makes a lot of difference .

Check your flow meter on the tank, if it's set too high  you get too much turbulence instead of a smooth flow in the gas shield around the arc

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  • 3 months later...
On 4/3/2018 at 3:39 PM, ausfire said:

The machine only keeps wire running out without trigger pressed on T4 setting, and I don't understand why you would choose that to happen

It means it need 4 trigger cycles, meaning you press trigger and release and the wire feeds, then press trigger and release and the wire stops. It is a trigger lock.

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Thanks. I never use that function. Just as an update, I have returned the bottle of Argon, picked up the correct Mig Mix gas and all is well.  My welding wasn't so bad after all.

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